From a Tropical Island to FinTech: Interview with Ellen Cibula

The HackerNoon editorial team has launched this interview series with women in tech to celebrate their achievements and share their struggles. We need more women in technology, and by sharing stories, we can encourage many girls to follow their dreams. Share your story today!

Tell us about yourself!

Hi. I'm Ellen Cibula; my career has taken a non-linear path to where I am today. I started as a chemical analyst at a laboratory for a chemical demilitarization site (Johnston Atoll Chemical Agent Demilitarization System (JACADS)). JACADS was on a remote island in the central Pacific. I was in charge of maintaining all of the non-agent air monitoring equipment at the plant and around the island. I stayed on this tiny island for 13 years, leaving only when the project was completed and I was laid off.

After a few years back at my new home stateside, I decided I needed to start a new chapter. I have always been interested in computers and programming, so I got a job as a computer programmer, with little experience. I quickly worked my way up, from beginner coder to senior software engineer, lead software engineer, and solutions architect. I enjoyed programming - who wouldn't want to solve puzzles all day and get paid for it? But I detested the non-effective meetings, constantly changing requirements, and long hours. I had planned to quit my job but was laid off just a few days before I could take that action for myself.

After a few years of recovering from burnout, I decided to take matters into my own hands and start my own business. I am now a full-time blogger writing about FinTech, payments, and security, but who knows what the future will hold - by running my own business, I am free to pivot to wherever I need to.

Why did you choose this field in the first place?

My parents both worked in science fields, my father worked at (and retired from) NASA and my mother was a nurse, and education was very important to them both. My father would take us to his laboratories at both work and the university where he taught classes, and I remember helping set up his equipment and assisting with the experiments. He would help me with my science projects, helping me grow my interest in science from an early age.

My mother started college while I was in elementary school, and I used to spend my spare time perusing her nursing textbooks. Many of these were probably not appropriate for my age, but I was intrigued all the same. I would also spend time with her at the hospital after she became a nurse, talking with the other employees. Although I enjoyed all areas of the hospital, the laboratory was one of my favorite areas.

There was no doubt in my mind I was going to college and would study science. I started in Chemistry, mostly because my parents knew one of the professors and he became my advisor, but I wasn't really into Chemistry (the irony is not lost on me that my first job was in a chemical laboratory). I switched my major to Biology, dreaming of becoming a marine biologist. I also took various math classes along the way, just because I enjoyed them. So I ended up with a B.S. degree in Biology and Math, with a minor in Chemistry.

While I was on the island, I was able to complete my M.S. degree in Computer Systems Management, which was a mesh between Computer Science and Management.

What tech are you most excited/passionate about right now and why?

I am excited about electric vehicles - I like the impact that these can have on the environment. But I also like the technical aspect of having a quiet car that does not use gasoline.

I also am excited about smart homes and home automation. I guess I'm lazy and it just thrills me to tell the AI assistant to turn on or off the lights (or whatever), without having to get up to turn on the light switch.

I also am intrigued by the DeFi trend - anytime there is an opportunity to shake up a core industry, I think it tends to move society forward. It is too easy for society to become entrenched in how things have always been; change is hard, but it is the only constant in our lives.

What tech are you most worried about right now and why?

My biggest concerns revolve around cybersecurity and privacy. As a former developer in the financial sector, I know how critical it is to build security in systems from the beginning; it is extremely difficult to enhance security after the fact. I also know that some developers are not as well versed in security best practices as they should be (as evidenced by SQL injection still in the top 3 of the OWASP Top 10 web application security risks. Still. Easy to mitigate, but it is still there. At least it dropped from #1 to #3. Sigh.). This worries me because so much of our personal and financial information is out there, and if the developers of the systems that contain our data don't understand security, then all of that information is at risk.

What are your hobbies and interests outside of tech?

I love swimming; I try to swim two miles, three days a week. I also enjoy camping (well, glamping, in an RV with power and water), hiking, and anything that gets me away from the computer and into the outdoors. I also love to read, mostly sci-fi and fantasy, but occasionally a random math or science book.

My wife and I have 2 rescue pets - a yellow lab/border collie mix (Sprocket) and a newly-rescued former tom cat (Gryffin) who is figuring out his place in the family and learning to live his best life. They keep us entertained.

Let's talk about breaking the glass ceiling. What were the biggest challenges you faced as a woman in tech, and how did you deal with them?

For most of my career, I was always in the minority; on Johnston Island, the ratio of men to women was about 10:1 when I got there, and about 4:1 when I left. The ratio of women in the laboratory was higher, but the plant was very similar to a construction site, with the same cat calls and innuendo whenever a woman would walk through the plant.

When I became a programmer, the ratio of men to women was even higher; I was often the only woman on the team, especially when I went to meetings with C-level executives.

Also, as a lesbian in the tech world, again, I was usually the only member representing in the IT department; at one job, there was one gay guy in product who was out - and he was the only other one I knew about. Maybe there were more in the closet as much as I was, but I wasn't aware of them. I was not out during my programming career. I live in a religious, conservative state and I was worried that I would lose my job. Sometimes conversations with others became torture, trying to talk about my wife without using pronouns; it was "my spouse this" or a generic "they". I think only two coworkers clued in with my weird phrasing, but they could have cared less when I came out to them privately. It was difficult because I never did anything with others outside of work. After all, it would have been hard to have a personal relationship with someone without informing them of my personal life.

I dealt with these challenges by working harder than almost anyone else in the department. I was usually the first to arrive at the office and the last to leave. There was nothing more frustrating than working on a critical, time-sensitive project, and turn around to ask a coworker a question, and realizing I was the only one who was still at the office.

Fortunately, I worked for managers that appreciated my work ethic and regularly promoted me.

Any questionable misogynistic story/situation you faced/handled, and you want to share with the HackerNoon Fam?

There were several instances of misogyny and sexual harassment when I was on the island. One, in particular, stands out; I was calibrating some equipment that was located in an isolated corner in the plant; there was a group of men relaxing in an adjacent area; they were telling sex stories, complete with explicit braggadocio about their encounters. I was able to hear all of it, but they did not realize I was there (even though I had to walk through them to get to my work area). Eventually, they realized I was there and changed their conversation. Before I left, I talked to their supervisor (who was with them) and explained that I did not appreciate having to hear that while I was working. He expressed remorse and said it wouldn't happen again. Again, I had to walk through them to leave, which was a whole new level of awkwardness.

Later that day, I relayed the event to a friend, who insisted I tell my manager. I did not want to, because the island population was very small and I didn't want everyone to think I was a "tattle tale". Against my better judgment, I told my manager, insisting that he not do anything about it unless it happened again. Well, he went to the lab manager, who went to the plant manager, and by the end of the day, everyone at the plant knew I "tattled." I now had a reputation as someone not to be trusted if I overheard something. For a while, it was very uncomfortable working there. I ended up wearing earplugs whenever I walked around the plant, just so I didn't have to hear the cat calls, wolf whistles, and other inane comments as I did my job.

Another incident occurred when I was working as a developer. I remember when I started a new job, one of my new male colleagues, also a new hire, kept telling me stories about another woman programmer that he worked with - she couldn't do her job, she would just put her head on the desk and sleep, she never finished her assignments - and he hoped I wouldn't be like her.

He and I butted heads most of our time there together; he was condescending to me, insinuating that there was no way I could be a good programmer because I was a woman. He never said that out loud, but that was the undercurrent based on his comments to me and other coworkers. It didn't help when I was promoted over him. The sad part was that we shared some of the same interests and could have interesting conversations. He just didn't seem to be comfortable that I was doing the same job he was, but I was doing it better.

What was the biggest setback/failure that you faced, and how did you manage it?

I would say my biggest failure was not being able to be my true self at work; being closeted was difficult, to say the least. I was often promoted, but only in tech roles, never as a manager. Was it because I could never make personal connections with others at work? I don't know.

What's your biggest achievement that you're really proud of?

Professionally, my biggest achievement was to help rid the world of chemical weapons. Working at JACADS was one of the best things that could have happened to me because among other reasons, I met my wife there.

I am also really proud that during my software career, I was promoted quickly and above others who had been developers for years. I credit that to my ability to learn quickly and apply what I learned to the project at hand. I've always said I was able to see the big picture while being detail-oriented. I also was able to understand the business requirements behind the project and steer the project toward those requirements. Many of my coworkers were wowed by the latest development paradigm and neglected to achieve the project goals.

Personally, my biggest achievement was that my wife and I were able to both retire early. Much of that was because we spent so many years on an island where everything was provided for us (food, housing, activities) and we had nowhere to spend our money. We are both naturally frugal, though, and when we came back stateside, we were able to live well within our salaries; we also hired some top-notch financial planners that have helped us realize our dreams of retiring.

Being retired has opened many doors for us, from starting our own business to having the time to pursue whatever activities we want. And I finally have the time to see what exciting things I can do with that Raspberry Pi that is sitting behind my monitors.

In your opinion, why do we see this huge gender gap in the tech industry, and how can we reduce it?

Everything starts with education, but our education system (in the US) is flawed; it is funded based on property taxes, but poorer areas have fewer property taxes, therefore, less funding. This limits the opportunities of the children in these schools, and because ~50% are girls, these girls are limited even more.

We also have a cultural problem where girls are not steered into STEM/STEAM classes. I include the "arts" in STEAM, because, as a lover of all things math, I understand the importance of music in developing math skills. Sadly, many girls are not even exposed to STEM/STEAM topics. I get frustrated that we are still selling "girl" toys (dolls, makeup, purses) and "boy" toys (robots, RC cars/trucks, rockets). We should be selling just toys. I make a conscious effort to buy educational (but fun) genderless toys for the children in my extended family.

However, there are also problems once women get into the workforce: lack of comprehensive health care, no cohesive national maternity leave policy, inflexible work hours, and misogynistic attitudes that women can't be as good as, or successful as, men in leadership roles. Many women I know have had to quit their jobs or reduce their work hours while they raise their children. This puts them behind in their careers when they return to full work after their children are older. Without having the ability to work flexible hours or hybrid work (remote + office), they have few options. During the pandemic, many worked remotely from home, but now many organizations are pulling workers back into the office, not even allowing a hybrid work environment. This will again, put many women in a position where they have to choose between a career and their family. We (as a people) can and should do better in finding ways to provide work environments that work for all who wish to pursue careers.

Who is your tech idol? Why?

I have always admired Sally Ride, the first American woman in space and the first LGBTQ+ NASA astronaut. Even with her success in the Space Shuttle program, she felt she needed to hide a part of who she was. I can relate.

I am also grateful for Reshma Saujani, founder and former CEO of Girls Who Code. Providing opportunities to girls to learn how to code and changing the image of what a computer programmer looks like is so critical in breaking the gender gap in technology. Every business sector is powered by applications, and those applications need software developers. Why not fill those positions with women who code?

Do you have any advice for aspiring girls who want to join the field?

Just go for it. There will be pushback but do it anyhow. Read everything you can get your hand on (even if it is a college nursing book and you are only in 5th grade). Be curious. Try something new. You will fail, and it's okay. Every time you fail you have an opportunity to learn something.

Don't listen to those making fun of you because you want to be a programmer, scientist, mathematician, whatever. Just do it (apologies to Nike).