Building Enterprise-Grade Security Solutions For Web3

In this AMA we hosted the team at Interlock. Interlock is a company that provides quality security solutions for web3 users. In the biggest AMA we've ever done, dives into how to protect your web3 assets. Interlock Jack Boreham Dec 14, 2022, 7:08 PM Hi, @channel, please join me in welcoming the team from Interlock.... Rick, Andrew Ciaccia John Mercouris Backed by some of the biggest names in web3, Interlock are pioneers in web3 security, empowering defi users through security. You can ask the team anything about: 1.The top security problems for crypto and web3 users? 2. Social engineering and how it relates to crypto and web3 users? 3. DeFi users (degens) are some of the prime targets. What are some of the ways in which they’re particularly vulnerable? 4.What are some rules of thumb for how they can protect themselves? 5.What are some other security problems for crypto and web3 users that you wouldn’t expect to hear about or are new to web3-native audiences? 7.What technologies can be used to help prevent this or minimize the effect of these social engineering practices? 8.How can you distinguish between a genuine threat and an innocent visual flaw or unconventional design? Could an AI make these distinctions? 9.The possibilities that are uniquely enabled by web3 in terms of crowdsourcing intelligence? 10.The advantages and disadvantages of using blockchain technology to fight threats? 11. What’s the reason behind launching enterprise-grade security as a browser extension? 12. What’s it like to use ThreatSlayer? Can users expect a similar experience to using other security extensions? 13. How are ThreatSlayer users making the internet safer with Grey-area staking? 14. Why is blockchain technology critical for ThreatSlayer and the overall project? 🔥 5 :saluting_face: 3 Jack Boreham Dec 14, 2022, 7:10 PM Hi Rick and Andrew Ciaccia; great to have you with us today. Can you first start by explaining what interlock is! Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:11 PM Thanks for having us Jack Boreham - of course, happy to share what Interlock is 🙂 goldenwarrior Dec 14, 2022, 7:15 PM How do you protect web3 users from scams and attacks? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:20 PM we identify malicious websites Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:20 PM Interlock is a blockchain based cybersecurity company that is building community-driven security products that crowdsource threat intelligence and promote collaboration between consumers and enterprises to make the web safer. John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:20 PM and then we warn the users that those sites are malicious Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:20 PM We protect Web3 users from scams and attacks via our products - currently, our browser extension, ThreatSlayer and our Discord bot Bouncer. ThreatSlayer blocks attacks you come across in your browser by detecting whether the site you're visiting is malicious, including metadata it detects as well. Bouncer blocks malicious links in Discord the same way but for the entire community it's deployed to. John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:20 PM we use a number of dimensions that assess whether a site is trying to impersonate another site to steal your credentials John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:20 PM this is commonly known as "phishing" Jack Boreham Dec 14, 2022, 7:26 PM Interesting, so what would you say are the top security problems for defi folks, and how can they protect themselves on a day to day basis Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:29 PM The biggest problems people face are really still around phishing and social engineering. Getting the person to click a link that is urging them to sign a smart contract, or enter their password, or passphrase, immediately! Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:29 PM Or download a file, as well. Terry Jones Dec 14, 2022, 7:29 PM What is social engineering and how does this relate? Rick John Mercouris Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 7:30 PM Hello,Rick, Andrew Ciaccia John Mercouris We are so glad to have you here! Thank you Jack Boreham for outlining these amazing questions. Rick Does AI play a huge role in Cybersecurity? If yes, how does it play an important role? ❤ 1 Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:30 PM Those sort of attacks are best thwarted by using security products like ours -- but if you need to take it into your own hands, you can just be sure to pay attention to every URL and every message you see. NEVER click without thinking and confirming John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:32 PM Social engineering is the idea of manipulating individuals on the basis of common social behaviors to bypass a security system. For example, you might think of the simplest type of social engineering as pleading to someone: "come on, it's not a big deal, just give me the password". However, typically, social engineering is used to mean manipulation/deception! John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:33 PM Social engineering is tangentially related in that a individual carrying out a social engineering attack may use Phishing as one of their weapons. You can imagine a scenario in which a fake website is used to convince somebody of something to further your attack into a security system. Dan Tennery-Spalding Dec 14, 2022, 7:33 PM I’d add that there are three main components to any social engineering attack: authority, urgency, and a call to action Dan Tennery-Spalding Dec 14, 2022, 7:34 PM so it’s not just “give me your password,” but “I’m an administrator and you need to give me your password now for a system reset” John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:34 PM I know this all sounds very vague, so let me sum it up: I can use a phishing website as part of a social engineering attack. So our product help defend against some social engineering attacks that employ phishing sites as part of their strategy. may goldenwarrior Dec 14, 2022, 7:34 PM John Mercouris what kind of tech goes into threatslayer? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:35 PM I cannot speak to specific details as it is like the Google page rank algorithm, we don't want to give ammunition to our adversaries, however I can provide a architectural level overview. John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:36 PM What we do is we look at a website, and we have a bunch of information we collect about that website. That information is then vectorized and fed into a machine learning classifier. That classifier will then provide us with an estimated probability that a website is malicious. Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:37 PM AI has a role in all new technology but in cybersecurity the huge part is plays is to help detect things before they're known. Using AI, Interlock determines the safety of a site even if its never been visited before. Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:37 PM More broadly, other cybersecurity tools and processes use AI to accomplish similar things Jason Green Dec 14, 2022, 7:37 PM Is web3 easier than web2 to hack John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:37 PM No John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:37 PM Simply put, the ease of a hack is a function of the target Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:37 PM I'd say no but the assets are closer to exfiltration John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:37 PM since the targets are all individuals, the level is the same Jason Green Dec 14, 2022, 7:38 PM Couldn't your technology be applied in the web2 space as well? Jason Green Dec 14, 2022, 7:38 PM If so John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:38 PM Yes, it absolutely can, a good point Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:38 PM yep it absolutely applies to Web2, and everyone in Web2 benefits from our tech in the same way Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:39 PM Sorry to overlap 🙂 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:39 PM Sorry that I type faster John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:39 PM #sorrynotsorry :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: 2 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:39 PM #rekt John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:40 PM to just add a little bit more, Web3 could use more protection than Web2 right now. There is already a lot of support for this kind of protection in Web2, but not much in Web3. We are filling that gap! Dan Tennery-Spalding Dec 14, 2022, 7:41 PM and as per Rick before, it’s easier to exfiltrate someone’s assets in web3 aka rip them off John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:41 PM s/exfiltrate/pwn Dan Tennery-Spalding Dec 14, 2022, 7:41 PM well, not exactly Jack Boreham Dec 14, 2022, 7:41 PM to add to that point are there any competitors doing similar in the web2 space? Dan Tennery-Spalding Dec 14, 2022, 7:41 PM in web2, if someone gets access to my online bank account, I have other ways to protect my assets, legally and administratively Dan Tennery-Spalding Dec 14, 2022, 7:42 PM in web3, I’m screwed John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:42 PM Absolutely right Dan! 🙏 1 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:42 PM Jack Boreham indeed, however, we think our technology is the bestest 😉 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:42 PM our technology protects against so called "0-day" phishing attacks John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:43 PM we can detect novel phishing sites whereas most services rely on reports/lists submitted by people manually Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:43 PM Jack Boreham Guardio creates a web2 browser extension but lacks Web3 rewards and web3 threat protection Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 7:43 PM Rick With regards to AI, Interlock determines the safety of a site even if it has never been visited before. How does it do that? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:43 PM Valentine Enedah we use JIT (just in time) analysis, when a user wishes to know about a site that we haven't yet classified,we'll check it out just then! ❤ 1 Jack Boreham Dec 14, 2022, 7:43 PM hahaha, are you teaming up with anyone in the space to drive industry standards? I guess since web3 is so new it gives you the opportunity to 'pave the way' as some might say. John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:43 PM our algorithm is super fast, so it only takes miliseconds John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:44 PM We are certainly teaming up with people, I'll let our slow typing CEO respond to that 😂 1 Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:44 PM Jack Boreham currently we're in talks with a handful of partners and we'd love to dip into industry standards with them. ATM we're busy building 🙂 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:48 PM Come on, hit us with the hard questions, we're ready! :boxing_glove: 1 😂 1 Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 7:52 PM John Mercouris Recently the was discovered. How does Interlock plan to protect users or fight this spyware? The Hermit spyware John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:53 PM Indeed, that is a tough one John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:54 PM Well, the first step is don't visit dangerous sites! so we should not be exposed to compromised things John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:54 PM that said, we are not targetting android/ios - YET! 💚 1 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:54 PM stay tuned 🙂 Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:55 PM In the past, we've avoided IOS/android due to browser limitations, but we're coming up with clever methods of applying our tech 💚 1 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 7:56 PM as you know, "The Hermit" depended on users visiting unique /dangerous links, if we could warn people on mobile phones, then this kind of attack could be prevented! 💚 1 Terry Jones Dec 14, 2022, 7:56 PM Why would you say block chain tech is critical for your applications? Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:57 PM good question! we want to make sure users are involved in the process of improving security and the best way to do that is to incentivize them - so in the immediate term, blockchain provides us a way to grow and reward our community. Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:58 PM Longer-term, blockchain lets us decentralize and make security transparent - something which historically has never been transparent and ALWAYS owned by the security provider. Rick Dec 14, 2022, 7:59 PM It's a much bigger piece of #desec as we grow - decentralized security Marco Sullivan Dec 14, 2022, 8:00 PM John Mercouris What is the use of DNS Monitoring? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:01 PM Marco Sullivan can you please rephrase your question? what do you mean? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:01 PM Are you asking how DNS monitoring can be used? Marco Sullivan Dec 14, 2022, 8:01 PM John Mercouris Yes, exactly! goldenwarrior Dec 14, 2022, 8:01 PM What does your roadmap look like? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:02 PM DNS monitoring is very useful for identifying changes in DNS records, age of domains etc John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:02 PM Why do you want to know that? because usually people change the DNS to do something "phishy"! 😅 1 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:02 PM they want to impersonate another site, they register a new domain name, etc, they do it quickly, and they have a narrow window to work before they are reported! John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:03 PM does that answer your question? 👍 1 Marco Sullivan Dec 14, 2022, 8:03 PM John Mercouris I see what you did there!😂 How do you differentiate between Symmetric and Asymmetric Encryption? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:04 PM Ah, yes, very simply. Symmetric encryption sucks, and asymmetric encryption is good 😄 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:04 PM On a more serious note, I prefer asymmetric encryption, personally John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:05 PM why do I prefer it? because I can send you encrypted messages and you can send me encrypted messages, and it is clear from they are coming from whom John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:05 PM if we are using some symmetric encryption it wouldn't exactly be clear who encrypted what John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:05 PM of course a "man in the middle" type attack is totally possible with asymmetric encryption, but that is another discussion! Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 8:05 PM Rick Can you explain a Brute Force Attack Along With the Steps To Prevent It? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:06 PM Marco Sullivan does that make sense? it's a sort of practical answer, not really explaining the differences between them, but how I differentiate their usage Marco Sullivan Dec 14, 2022, 8:08 PM John Mercouris Yes,I actually understand this perspective. How about ARP poisoning? Can you explain it with an example? Dan Tennery-Spalding Dec 14, 2022, 8:11 PM Marco Sullivan from what I know about ARP poisoning, it’s more common to local network attacks, which is not our focus 👍 1 Rick Dec 14, 2022, 8:12 PM our roadmap for the next 12+ months looks like the following: Get ThreatSlayer to as many users as possible to keep them safe Get Bouncer to as many users as possible, for the same reason! Release our security API, Autocrat Prepare for our token launch and testnet launch with audits Launch our token Close fundraising round(s) Launch our data platform Rick Dec 14, 2022, 8:12 PM not in that order! Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 8:14 PM Rick What are the possibilities that are uniquely enabled by web3 in terms of crowdsourcing intelligence? Rick Dec 14, 2022, 8:16 PM Valentine Enedah great q - the biggest is that we can reward people for creating security data for us. That data is valuable to us and to enterprises, so it should also have value for our users who help create it. Our token helps us reward, and blockchain tech helps us grow the community and decentralize the way data is made and accessed. 💚 1 Dan Tennery-Spalding Dec 14, 2022, 8:16 PM I think of web3 enabling us to create a security ecosystem that everyone in the system benefits from Dan Tennery-Spalding Dec 14, 2022, 8:17 PM in web2, only big companies got the benefits — web3 let’s us share the wealth with all the people who help create it John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:20 PM Marco Sullivan I could explain ARP poisoning, but that is currently beyond our scope XD 💚 1 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:21 PM There are a million and one ways the network itself could be compromised. Unfortunately, from the host machine, I don't see how we could see the network is compromised. I'm sure there is some research on this topic, but I don't know it yet! I am happy to be informed though! how 💚 1 Marco Sullivan Dec 14, 2022, 8:24 PM Dan Tennery-Spalding Thank you for the amazing responses. I think this question might be generic. What are the current challenges, Cybersecurity faces in the Web3 space? Rick Dec 14, 2022, 8:26 PM Marco Sullivan The big challenge is the lack of a way to keep up with how new threats are created, to be clear, thats a problem in web2 as well. But now, in web3, it has a deeper impact because users are being targeted for their assets at an alarming rate. 💚 1 Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 8:27 PM John Mercouris What are the several indicators of compromise(IOC) that organizations should monitor? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:28 PM Valentine Enedah I think they should be looking at the origin of network traffic first and foremost. It's typically extraterritorial IPs that are conducting cyber attacks. Secondly, they should train a model against their typical network activity, then when the model detects a abnormal/improbable condition it should warn them of this. 💚 1 Marco Sullivan Dec 14, 2022, 8:29 PM Rick This makes a lot of sense. I need more clarity on how Blockchain technology is critical for Threatslayer and the overall project? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:29 PM I did some research on the training of finite automata with guards to represent the nominal activity of a system and to warn against this, if you are truly interested I can go quite into depth 😄 Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 8:31 PM John Mercouris Amazing. I would be glad to know more about your research. Rick Dec 14, 2022, 8:31 PM Marco Sullivan specifically, blockchain enables our ability to distribute rewards to our users in an efficient, fair, economical manner. In the future, its tech will allow people to host their own Interlock nodes Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 8:32 PM Rick And what will be the function of these interlock nodes? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:34 PM Valentine Enedah I shall provide a short little summary here: what we do is we install a whole bunch of sensors on a system. The sensors are collecting data about this system. We sum all of these sensor values into a vector of N dimensions (where N is the amount of points we collect). We look at the way the vectors change over time. We model this change into something called a finite state machine. If we observe a change/pattern in the vectors we've not observed before, we can conclude the system is NOT operating nominally! I hope that helps. Trying to summarize years of research is sometimes challenging 😄 Marco Sullivan Dec 14, 2022, 8:34 PM Dan Tennery-Spalding Although,I found some information on the internet that says SSL are more secure that Https. But why do most websites still use Https? Rick Dec 14, 2022, 8:35 PM Valentine Enedah they will host their own versions of our detection that John Mercouris has made! And a copy of our data, allowing people to have their own users of Interlock, and helping us decentralize our detection. They will get rewarded for running a node John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:37 PM Marco Sullivan I think there may be some slight confusion, these topics are a bit orthogonal 🙂 💚 1 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:37 PM HTTPS is the most commonly secure way to access a website 🔥 1 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:37 PM so, if the site has HTTPS, you are A-OK! 🙂 🔥 1 Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 8:39 PM John Mercouris Wow, amazing work! Thank you for throwing more light on that. John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:39 PM Thank you Valentine Enedah John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:40 PM here's what I want to know: can you guys tell me about some experiences you've had with hacking, phishing? cool stuff? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:41 PM something you are curious about? perhaps we can discuss it and see how we could help protect against it! Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 8:42 PM Rick That makes so much sense! Great perspective. Where do you see Interlock in the next five years? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:43 PM on a private yacht in the bahamas 🔥 1 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:43 PM no doubt Rick Dec 14, 2022, 8:43 PM Valentine Enedah id like to see it become the defacto for security in web3, creating an entire stack of security products and tools that users, researchers, and companies will use in the web3 sphere. all focused on transparency and efficacy 💚 1 Rick Dec 14, 2022, 8:43 PM i get seasick, no boats. 😂 1 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:43 PM on a private blimp in the bahamas John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:43 PM no doubt John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:43 PM fun fact, most of the interlock team actually live on a blimp :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: 2 Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 8:44 PM John Mercouris I don't have so much experience with hacking but my facebook account was hacked years ago and I was just curious to know how they got access to the account considering the fact that I didn't use it very often. John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:44 PM Valentine Enedah most attacks are multi pronged, they don't use a single vector, they use a piece which get's them another piece and so on and so forth 💚 1 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:44 PM that makes it really hard to trace a exploit to a single point of failure John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:45 PM potentially it could be something as simple as an old security question that you used somewhere being exposed John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:45 PM that's the challenge with security, the attack surface can be infinitely large! 💚 1 Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 8:46 PM Rick Nice! What do you think would make Interlock standout from other cybersecurity companies? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:46 PM well, firstly, we all live on a blimp John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:47 PM secondly, we detect NOVEL attacks, things that haven't been seen before! John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:47 PM thirdly, we are transparent John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:47 PM our client code is open source, inspectable, verifiable! 💚 1 Rick Dec 14, 2022, 8:47 PM yeah what john said. and then on top of that, we make products that bridge the problems of web2 to web3, without leaving either or behind Valentine Enedah 💚 1 Rick Dec 14, 2022, 8:47 PM We already ARE standout 🙂 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:48 PM you heard it here first, the CEO just confirmed we live on a blimp 😂 1 Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 8:51 PM John Mercouris Rick Interlock!🔥 Rick should consider getting an island and naming it "Interlock-Land" A place you are protected physically and virtually. John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:51 PM That's a great idea Valentine Enedah,we look forward to welcoming you on our island 🔥 1 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:52 PM we'll have barbecues and play beach volleyball until the sun sets, it'll be great 🔥 1 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 8:54 PM Valentine Enedah Nice GH profile, very creative! Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 8:59 PM John Mercouris Thank you so much! How do you promote cyber security in your local community? John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 9:00 PM I go door to door John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 9:00 PM I knock on people's doors and ask them if they have updated their OS and drivers 😂 2 John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 9:00 PM no, I'm just kidding John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 9:00 PM the answer is, I have no idea how I would engage with my local community about this topic, I typically engage with people on the Internet about it instead John Mercouris Dec 14, 2022, 9:01 PM if you have any suggestions on how we can raise awareness and keep people safe, I am all ears! Valentine Enedah Dec 14, 2022, 9:20 PM John Mercouris I totally understand. Do you share your perspectives on Hackernoon? Dan Tennery-Spalding Dec 14, 2022, 11:03 PM Valentine Enedah how would you suggest we do that? you got a link we should go to? Valentine Enedah Dec 15, 2022, 10:44 AM John Mercouris Dan Tennery-Spalding Well, a very fast way is by joining communities and speaking to them about Cybersecurity. HackerNoon has a huge community and we are so glad to have you here! PS: You can also write on HackerNoon. I guess you know that already.😂 🔥 1 🙏 1 Limarc Ambalina Dec 15, 2022, 10:55 AM Thanks for being here Rick John Mercouris Andrew Ciaccia and team! My question is: Do you think that the push for better crypto security and the real changes will only come from government regulation and intervention or do you think it will come from the market? Rick Dec 15, 2022, 3:53 PM Limarc Ambalina thanks! I think it will come from both - but if you look at Web2, most regulation hasnt fixed security. HIPAA and SOC, PCI, etc., never solve security. They just made a new checkbox list and often times opened more vulnerabilities. Mónica Freitas Dec 15, 2022, 3:59 PM Hi Rick Andrew Ciaccia and John Mercouris! Nice to meet you! What the best piece advice have you ever been given that has made a difference in your career? And what have you learn from your experience that you think it's important for new comers to web3 space to know? Sara Pinto Dec 15, 2022, 4:28 PM Hey everyone! Nice no meet you all. What does the future hold for Interlock? Do you have any projects in mind you'd like to further explore? Rick, Andrew Ciaccia and John Mercouris Andrew Ciaccia Dec 15, 2022, 5:56 PM Sara Pinto Hey Sara! A few cool web3 projects to checkout: Aleph Zero, an up and coming layer 1 that we’re launching our product and token on. Webacy, doing cool things for web3 security Ahoy Connect: a community marketing tool, very cool product, and I’m actually headed to NYC now to have lunch with the founder! Rick Dec 16, 2022, 11:26 AM Mónica Freitas Best advice I've gotten was never take yourself too seriously. As far as important for newcomers, is simply to stay vigilant and try not to ape into new trends without first confirming what you're interacting with is legitimate Jack Boreham Dec 16, 2022, 7:42 PM Thank you Andrew Ciaccia Rick John Mercouris for answering all our questions in this exciting ama. Any final thoughts you guys want to add to wrap up? Rick Dec 16, 2022, 8:01 PM Thank you for your time! ❤ 1