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Quan hệ truyền thông của Yale dành cho doanh nhân với Nhà báo Walter Thompson & Giám đốc điều hành HackerNoon David Smooketừ tác giả@videoman
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Quan hệ truyền thông của Yale dành cho doanh nhân với Nhà báo Walter Thompson & Giám đốc điều hành HackerNoon David Smooke

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Video Man

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Xem và đọc cuộc phỏng vấn của Giám đốc điều hành HackerNoon David Smooke và nhà báo Walter Thompson với Hiệp hội Doanh nhân Yale!
featured image - Quan hệ truyền thông của Yale dành cho doanh nhân với Nhà báo Walter Thompson & Giám đốc điều hành HackerNoon David Smooke
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Video Man

Video Man

@videoman

i'm a man i'm a man i'm a video man


we have two really amazing uh

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journalists um and kind of technologists

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in their own right as well um here to

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speak with us about best practices for

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startups when contacting the media um um

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kind of opening that black box of uh of

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Journalism and PR as well I'll introduce

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each of the mentors and then I'll bring

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them up individually to speak for about

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3 to five minutes and then we'll open up

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for uh questions from um the society

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memb

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first up we have Walter Thompson he's

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award-winning independent journalist

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based in San Francisco he was previously

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editorial manager at TechCrunch a

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leading digital publication covering

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technology and Entrepreneurship in the

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US and really around the world at Tech

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crunch he managed the site's guest

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contributor program which includes

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opinion pieces from startup Founders and

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investors that appear on TechCrunch plus

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and TechCrunch his work has appeared in

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the guardian San Francisco magazine ala

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journal and hoodline just to name a few

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we're really happy to have Walter with

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us uh and before I bring Walter on um

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I'd also like to introduce David smook

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who is the founder and CEO of hacker

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noon uh one of the leading news

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Publications for technologists and Tech

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enthusiasts that counts over 4 million

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monthly readers over the past seven

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years David has led the company's growth

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growth trajectory raising millions of

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dollars in Venture funding uh securing

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thousands of clients from startups to

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Leading technology corporations and

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Publishing stories from tens of

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thousands of contributing writers before

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founding his company David worked as the

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director of content marketing for smart

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recruiters um we'll go ahead and bring

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up Walter first and then and then David

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Walter if you'd like to share your

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screen I'm really happy to do so if not

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sir no worries either there um thanks

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Jim thanks for having me here today

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actually I did not do an official deck I

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just kind of wrote notes today so no

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screen to share sorry about that okay

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and apologies I had a big week today um

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I launched my podcast on Monday and then

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Sunday it contracted covid so I'm a

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little slow so here today sorry about

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that and congrats at the same time

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thanks just glad to be here um yeah so I

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have a I have an interesting that I mean

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I think it's interesting I guess um I

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spent most of my career working in

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startups before actually transitioned

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and became a journalist so I've kind of

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sat in both sides of the table when it

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comes to media and P are and trying to

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find your way into that whole ecosystem

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um and one thing I will say is this like

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the whole idea of encouraging

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entrepreneurs to become storytellers is

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a bit of a cliche but it's actually true

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you will need to create a cohesive

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narrative around you and your product or

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service before you enter the marketplace

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just the same way you need to do the

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same thing to get an investor to back

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you um so today I want to talk about

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some of the basic principles for

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generating positive coverage and also

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some thoughts on how to interact with

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reporters once you've actually gotten

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the access um and the first thing first

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is that if you've raised money from an

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investor that might be enough to make

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your company newsworthy in some circles

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most reporters are looking for the same

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sort of social proofs that investors

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seek so what problem is your company

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looking to solve is your solution

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feasible and then lastly why is your

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team the right one to solve this problem

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or take on this problem and that last

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part is really key uh you need to find

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concrete tangible ways to make yourself

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the hero of this three-part story as far

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as problem solution and then team uh and

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but overarching that I think the bigger

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thing I would say is the most important

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thing when it comes to actually getting

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your foot in the door and actually

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getting positive coverage to your

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company uh it's not it's not

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transactional it's not a I give you a

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pitch or I give you a tip and then you

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write about my company it the whole

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media PR thing in my experience is very

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much relationship based and I'm not

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saying that I'm not saying that to

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characterize it as good or bad I'm just

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saying it's kind of just how it is um

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and and I'm saying that because you know

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things I think people think that when

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they have a story in mind or they have

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when they're ready to go to market when

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they're ready to get some press for

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themselves uh a lot of people that they

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start with kind of cold calling just

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kind of like sending out emails to

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reporters who might they think right

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about them and that cold that that kind

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of spray spray and prey approach it

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really rarely results in coverage uh in

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fact actually it's one of those things

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journalists like the journalists I used

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to work with we would talk on we would

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trade on slack every day like the

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cheesiest most uh like just you know

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least creative pitches we got and we'd

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laugh about them because we you know

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people want to pass the time and not to

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be cruel but it's just like some people

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just really would submit just really

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terrible pitches that they thought be

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provocative or interesting um you

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wouldn't I wouldn't you wouldn't believe

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how many times in a day I got a pitch

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that was basically had another

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reporter's name and another publication

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on it because they were just sending

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them out so quickly and using a template

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it's it's so take your time um if you

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can establish yourself as a domain

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expert or somebody who actually has or

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reliable source uh over time you're much

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more likely to get the engagement you're

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seeking um so yeah cold pitches are just

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really ineffective they're not a good

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use of your time they're not generate

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the coverage you're looking for um it's

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really about building relationships and

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so I would say some of those ways not

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actually heavy lifts as far as how to

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build a

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relationship there's a service called

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Help reporter out uh it's called H and

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it's exactly what it sounds like you can

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register yourself uh and then if you see

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and everybody you'll see a newsletter

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basically of reporters who are looking

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for answers to questions that are

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totally outside their expertise even if

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they have a beat on something like

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biotech or some aspect of Technology

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they still might have like a a gap in

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their background as far as like how to

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explain the technology or how something

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works or some Advanced kind of question

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so they go to services like like H and

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look for people people who have

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expertise who can actually answer

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questions and be a good source that's

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one really good way of um meeting you

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know engaging yourself with the

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journalistic community and presenting

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yourself as a domain expert another way

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um uh mentioned before I used to work

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for last four years I was working at

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TechCrunch and I was managing the guest

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contributor program which is basically

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op-eds um so op-eds that were opinion

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articles about Topics in the public

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interest that were technology related

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but then the other side were basically

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business related articles that were

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basically people sharing how-tos and

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kind of explaining how they solved

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common business problems that a lot of

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early stage startups had to contend with

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for fundraising or how to price their

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software products or marketing issues

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and and what I found was basically um a

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lot of people who didn't think of

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themselves as storytellers but they

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actually had these stories because like

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if you're an entrepreneur you have to go

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through these things as far as sitting

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across from an investor and trying to

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gain their trust and get them to give

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you a check or trying to hire somebody

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or trying to fire somebody and so I was

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able to kind of find like by asking

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people like you know about their

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experience um like what do you have that

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is useful to somebody else that you

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could share like and I would actually

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people and it's kind of funny people

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you'll probably hear a lot of people

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talk about thought leadership and I have

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a very contrarian aspect about

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contrarian opinion about that I don't

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think thought leadership is valuable to

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readers I think thought leadership is

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valuable to the person who is putting

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the thoughts forward because it

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burnishes their credentials and makes

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them look authoritative and good and and

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like a good investment really thought

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leaders are not it's good to be try to

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be helpful don't try to be a thought

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leader um try to share something that

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will actually create value and help help

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someone solve a problem not just make

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yourself look good that's what reporters

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are looking for um might be cheesy

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launch a podcast speak publicly uh send

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reporters commentary on something they

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wrote e doesn't even have to be about

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your company this is actually a good

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example I know of a Founder who spotted

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an error in an article about one of

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their competitors

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uh they contacted the reporter and

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explained you know here's why you were a

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little off in this whole thing and that

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actually established them as an expert

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in that reporter's eyes and so when they

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were going back and writing about other

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things in that sector that reporter knew

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to talk oh this person's a resource

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they're helpful and good and they

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weren't coming at me to promote

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themselves they're coming at me to

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actually be helpful that's that's

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valuable and that's the kind of thing

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that actually will get you the

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interactions you're looking for with

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reporters um

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first couple minutes very positive and

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aspirational so I want to end with a

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list of don'ts like I said before don't

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email every journalist uh before you

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pitch do build a spreadsheet with names

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of reporters who've written about your

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company uh do email them individually

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each one um don't use generative AI to

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craft your pitch uh try to do this in a

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thoughtful slow sensible basis so that

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you basically can give every reporter

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time to respond before you move on to

[00:08:58] : [00:09:00]

the next don't just dump it out there

[00:09:00] : [00:09:02]

and email 50 reporters in the same email

[00:09:02] : [00:09:05]

thread um it's not really going to be

[00:09:05] : [00:09:06]

they're not going to see it as valuable

[00:09:06] : [00:09:09]

for them um don't exaggerate or lie we

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will always find out and it's not going

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to be good for you if you offer a

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reporter an exclusive uh stick to that

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commitment and remember that anything

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you say to a reporter a journalist can

[00:09:20] : [00:09:22]

be published anything so if you want to

[00:09:22] : [00:09:24]

be off the Record you must say so and

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get them to agree before you disclose

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the thing you want to be off the Record

[00:09:29] : [00:09:30]

on the record is just exactly what it

[00:09:30] : [00:09:33]

sounds like there's other you there's

[00:09:33] : [00:09:36]

also not for attribution meaning you can

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say something but they can only identify

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you in general terms like a

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entrepreneurial minded student at a IV

[00:09:44] : [00:09:46]

league university that would be like

[00:09:46] : [00:09:48]

Notch attribution on background it's

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when they can quote an anonymous source

[00:09:50] : [00:09:52]

they quote The Source anonymously and

[00:09:52] : [00:09:54]

it's only paraphrased and then lastly

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off the Record which is exactly what it

[00:09:56] : [00:09:57]

sounds like the information you give the

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reporter is not for publication but it

[00:10:00] : [00:10:03]

could be used to as a point off

[00:10:03] : [00:10:05]

investigation for another story or to

[00:10:05] : [00:10:08]

verify a fact um just so you know just

[00:10:08] : [00:10:09]

the last thing I want to say it's really

[00:10:09] : [00:10:11]

unlikely that you're ever going to read

[00:10:11] : [00:10:13]

the entire story you're in before it's

[00:10:13] : [00:10:16]

published uh asking for a preview makes

[00:10:16] : [00:10:19]

you look defensive to a reporter um and

[00:10:19] : [00:10:20]

I'll just say this if you practice good

[00:10:20] : [00:10:22]

interview hygiene you won't have

[00:10:22] : [00:10:23]

anything to worry about as far as the

[00:10:23] : [00:10:27]

final product um so just again try to be

[00:10:27] : [00:10:29]

intentional try to find ways again it's

[00:10:29] : [00:10:33]

it's not easy uh it's work and it's it's

[00:10:33] : [00:10:35]

but it's and it's a long process of you

[00:10:35] : [00:10:37]

know building something relationships

[00:10:37] : [00:10:39]

but if you put the work in I promise

[00:10:39] : [00:10:42]

it'll pay off because building

[00:10:42] : [00:10:43]

relationships is really the only way

[00:10:43] : [00:10:44]

you're going to get positive coverage

[00:10:44] : [00:10:47]

and actually get to know reporters who

[00:10:47] : [00:10:50]

will want to get to know you as well um

[00:10:50] : [00:10:51]

and uh yeah thanks again for your time

[00:10:51] : [00:10:53]

and if you have any questions i' be

[00:10:53] : [00:10:55]

happy to take them thank you so much

[00:10:55] : [00:10:58]

Walter no great presentation thanks for

[00:10:58] : [00:11:00]

your talk um before before we take those

[00:11:00] : [00:11:02]

questions from Walter as well I did want

[00:11:02] : [00:11:05]

to bring on David smook who is the CEO

[00:11:05] : [00:11:07]

of hacker noon to speak for a few

[00:11:07] : [00:11:10]

minutes as well David welcome hey thanks

[00:11:10] : [00:11:12]

for having me it's been good to hear

[00:11:12] : [00:11:16]

everyone's talks here um you know uh

[00:11:16] : [00:11:18]

Walter congratulations on the new

[00:11:18] : [00:11:20]

podcast and leaving Tech crunch it's

[00:11:20] : [00:11:23]

nice to see you in the same room here um

[00:11:23] : [00:11:24]

you know I was thinking going hearing

[00:11:24] : [00:11:26]

the story of like when to start your

[00:11:26] : [00:11:29]

company I mean and when to make the leap

[00:11:29] : [00:11:31]

know I I did two years part-time before

[00:11:31] : [00:11:33]

I went full-time on hacker noon and you

[00:11:33] : [00:11:35]

know so I've been at this really nine

[00:11:35] : [00:11:39]

years you know a lot pretty long time um

[00:11:39] : [00:11:41]

and we found a nice niche in terms of

[00:11:41] : [00:11:44]

between social media and traditional

[00:11:44] : [00:11:47]

media um and you know as social media

[00:11:47] : [00:11:50]

kind of rose up everyone became a source

[00:11:50] : [00:11:52]

and that is a lot more a great

[00:11:52] : [00:11:54]

opportunity for an entrepreneur but it

[00:11:54] : [00:11:57]

also throws you into all the noise and

[00:11:57] : [00:11:59]

just your voice is kind of equal with

[00:11:59] : [00:12:02]

everybody else so at hacker noon we

[00:12:02] : [00:12:04]

provide a professional editor and we

[00:12:04] : [00:12:05]

reject half of the stories but at the

[00:12:05] : [00:12:07]

end of the day it's between

[00:12:07] : [00:12:09]

self-publishing and um pitching a

[00:12:09] : [00:12:12]

reporter and having them write about you

[00:12:12] : [00:12:15]

so it's just uh looking through some of

[00:12:15] : [00:12:17]

this I mean and thinking wow here I am

[00:12:17] : [00:12:19]

at Yale you know a school I couldn't get

[00:12:19] : [00:12:22]

into talking to entrepreneurs and you

[00:12:22] : [00:12:24]

guys are you know some of the elite of

[00:12:24] : [00:12:26]

the elite here and you're choosing to

[00:12:26] : [00:12:27]

say I'm going to get into

[00:12:27] : [00:12:30]

entrepreneurship and my message to you

[00:12:30] : [00:12:32]

is once you get into it you're

[00:12:32] : [00:12:33]

completely equal and your degree is

[00:12:33] : [00:12:36]

absolutely meaningless it's it maybe it

[00:12:36] : [00:12:38]

matters to some investors but in terms

[00:12:38] : [00:12:40]

of actually getting customers and

[00:12:40] : [00:12:42]

growing your business it's going to come

[00:12:42] : [00:12:44]

down to the work you actually do and how

[00:12:44] : [00:12:46]

it compares to the other offerings in

[00:12:46] : [00:12:49]

the marketplace so um some of me thinks

[00:12:49] : [00:12:51]

you're brave and some of me thinks

[00:12:51] : [00:12:52]

you're stupid you know of saying hey

[00:12:52] : [00:12:54]

this expensive degree I just got I'm

[00:12:54] : [00:12:56]

going to go in a profession where I can

[00:12:56] : [00:12:58]

make it worth nothing you know and that

[00:12:58] : [00:13:00]

that's um I I find a little bit of a

[00:13:00] : [00:13:03]

beauty in that um so you know hats off

[00:13:03] : [00:13:06]

to you guys keep going keep building uh

[00:13:06] : [00:13:09]

definitely um when it comes to Media to

[00:13:09] : [00:13:12]

me it's more about um building up your

[00:13:12] : [00:13:14]

rate of publishing and your quality of

[00:13:14] : [00:13:16]

publishing uh because your business

[00:13:16] : [00:13:18]

comes first and your media comes second

[00:13:18] : [00:13:20]

and hopefully your media follows your

[00:13:20] : [00:13:22]

business and you get media because of

[00:13:22] : [00:13:24]

the good work you're doing but it's it's

[00:13:24] : [00:13:26]

usually not going to feel like enough

[00:13:26] : [00:13:27]

you're going to feel like you're doing

[00:13:27] : [00:13:30]

more work than the that you get and you

[00:13:30] : [00:13:32]

have to be okay with that feeling and

[00:13:32] : [00:13:34]

you have to be okay with taking smaller

[00:13:34] : [00:13:36]

incremental steps to get more coverage

[00:13:36] : [00:13:39]

about your business and tell your story

[00:13:39] : [00:13:40]

and it's not going to come all at once

[00:13:40] : [00:13:43]

like just because you got funding

[00:13:43] : [00:13:45]

doesn't mean anyone cares I mean there

[00:13:45] : [00:13:47]

there's definitely some elements that a

[00:13:47] : [00:13:49]

reporter

[00:13:49] : [00:13:51]

um

[00:13:51] : [00:13:54]

any uh sorry Sor sorry David that wasn't

[00:13:54] : [00:13:57]

for you my apologies okay for the other

[00:13:57] : [00:14:01]

David just sorry sorry about that

[00:14:01] : [00:14:03]

um yeah

[00:14:03] : [00:14:06]

so thinking more about um you know what

[00:14:06] : [00:14:07]

to do next with with your business and

[00:14:07] : [00:14:09]

how to get more media I would look at

[00:14:09] : [00:14:11]

what is interesting about your own story

[00:14:11] : [00:14:13]

and I I actually kind of gravitate a

[00:14:13] : [00:14:14]

little more towards making your

[00:14:14] : [00:14:17]

customers or your contributors to Hero

[00:14:17] : [00:14:19]

as opposed to yourself um but that's

[00:14:19] : [00:14:22]

also just because I haven't been as good

[00:14:22] : [00:14:24]

at doing that and making myself the hero

[00:14:24] : [00:14:26]

um I think you know the individual

[00:14:26] : [00:14:28]

stories for me are are the hero and

[00:14:28] : [00:14:30]

hacker noon has a lot of stories and

[00:14:30] : [00:14:32]

most of the links that talk about hacker

[00:14:32] : [00:14:34]

noon they're actually talking about

[00:14:34] : [00:14:35]

content on hacker noon and not hacker

[00:14:35] : [00:14:38]

noon the company which kind of puts me

[00:14:38] : [00:14:40]

in a different spot but it's also every

[00:14:40] : [00:14:41]

business is like that if your business

[00:14:41] : [00:14:43]

has usage and adoption it's the people

[00:14:43] : [00:14:46]

using the product that are the aggregate

[00:14:46] : [00:14:48]

story of what your company is and you

[00:14:48] : [00:14:50]

can try to place stories and build

[00:14:50] : [00:14:52]

relationships and that'll frame in a

[00:14:52] : [00:14:54]

little bit but it's just within the

[00:14:54] : [00:14:55]

whole usage of your product and the

[00:14:55] : [00:14:58]

internet talking about it so I I really

[00:14:58] : [00:15:01]

at like trying to build up like how many

[00:15:01] : [00:15:02]

updates are you doing a day how many

[00:15:02] : [00:15:05]

long form posts you're doing to me

[00:15:05] : [00:15:08]

writing is a way of clear thinking and

[00:15:08] : [00:15:11]

if you do not have good writing you do

[00:15:11] : [00:15:13]

not have clear thinking like they

[00:15:13] : [00:15:14]

they're things that exist they can't

[00:15:14] : [00:15:16]

exist independent of each other in my

[00:15:16] : [00:15:19]

opinion um so it the other great thing

[00:15:19] : [00:15:21]

about writing more as an entrepreneur is

[00:15:21] : [00:15:23]

you're refining your own thinking so

[00:15:23] : [00:15:26]

setting goals of just writing more per

[00:15:26] : [00:15:28]

day I think will end up leading to more

[00:15:28] : [00:15:31]

media coverage about you because you'll

[00:15:31] : [00:15:32]

understand your story better and where

[00:15:32] : [00:15:35]

you exist in the market but tangibly as

[00:15:35] : [00:15:37]

an entrepreneur you the only goal you

[00:15:37] : [00:15:39]

really made was write more each day and

[00:15:39] : [00:15:42]

so it becomes a little more attainable

[00:15:42] : [00:15:44]

than some of these pitches and building

[00:15:44] : [00:15:46]

relationships that they're very

[00:15:46] : [00:15:49]

long-term games and you may know someone

[00:15:49] : [00:15:50]

for five years before they write one

[00:15:50] : [00:15:52]

story about you you know or you may not

[00:15:52] : [00:15:54]

even know the person who writes the next

[00:15:54] : [00:15:55]

story about you and that that would be

[00:15:55] : [00:15:57]

great but that's that's a little bit of

[00:15:57] : [00:15:58]

luck and it's the aggregation of of all

[00:15:58] : [00:16:00]

your work and you can't expect it to

[00:16:00] : [00:16:04]

just happen so as you you you come with

[00:16:04] : [00:16:06]

these spots of like how do you spend

[00:16:06] : [00:16:07]

time getting media it's always going to

[00:16:07] : [00:16:09]

feel like a second job it's your

[00:16:09] : [00:16:11]

business is always going to feel like

[00:16:11] : [00:16:13]

your first one you know making payroll

[00:16:13] : [00:16:15]

making Revenue get getting your team

[00:16:15] : [00:16:16]

motivated that stuff's always going to

[00:16:16] : [00:16:19]

come first so you have to find a good

[00:16:19] : [00:16:21]

balance of like how to weave into your

[00:16:21] : [00:16:24]

day about how to be more active on media

[00:16:24] : [00:16:26]

and get get involved with reporters and

[00:16:26] : [00:16:29]

make you know long-term relationships

[00:16:29] : [00:16:32]

so yeah my my advice is to keep going

[00:16:32] : [00:16:34]

and grind it out like I'm a stubborn

[00:16:34] : [00:16:37]

person and I I think that stubbornness

[00:16:37] : [00:16:40]

is um an entrepreneur's best friend in a

[00:16:40] : [00:16:41]

lot of

[00:16:41] : [00:16:44]

ways awesome David um great presentation

[00:16:44] : [00:16:46]

I couldn't agree more I think it's a

[00:16:46] : [00:16:48]

great exercise for anybody um to to

[00:16:48] : [00:16:50]

write whether it's something that you

[00:16:50] : [00:16:52]

put out there or just kind of keep

[00:16:52] : [00:16:54]

personally because it does kind of set

[00:16:54] : [00:16:57]

your head straight um as an entrepreneur

[00:16:57] : [00:16:59]

as well so fantastic

[00:16:59] : [00:17:02]

um um feedback we'll go ahead and open

[00:17:02] : [00:17:06]

up for questions uh for either David or

[00:17:06] : [00:17:12]

Walter or both um uh Phil uh uh Pui as

[00:17:12] : [00:17:14]

well um David anybody want to start off

[00:17:14] : [00:17:18]

with a question for either of our

[00:17:18] : [00:17:18]

mentors uh yeah go ahead David I think

[00:17:18] : [00:17:25]

you're on mute too yeah uh thank you so

[00:17:25] : [00:17:27]

much for the presentations those were

[00:17:27] : [00:17:29]

awesome really really love to hear that

[00:17:29] : [00:17:31]

um so you know moving forward of course

[00:17:31] : [00:17:33]

there's all types of new technology

[00:17:33] : [00:17:35]

coming out and it's you know always

[00:17:35] : [00:17:37]

difficult to predict the future but how

[00:17:37] : [00:17:40]

do you think AI might change the social

[00:17:40] : [00:17:43]

media PR and and really just media in

[00:17:43] : [00:17:45]

general Landscapes um first of all Spam

[00:17:45] : [00:17:47]

is through the roof it's easier than

[00:17:47] : [00:17:50]

ever to spam people and that is very

[00:17:50] : [00:17:53]

annoying um you know so at hacker noon

[00:17:53] : [00:17:55]

you know we're using AI tools to measure

[00:17:55] : [00:17:59]

AI writing and we're using AI to say say

[00:17:59] : [00:18:00]

give the editor and the writer it reads

[00:18:00] : [00:18:02]

your content it gives you five

[00:18:02] : [00:18:04]

recommendations of headlines that could

[00:18:04] : [00:18:06]

be better you know based on our past

[00:18:06] : [00:18:09]

library and the content that you wrote

[00:18:09] : [00:18:10]

but usually the human can still write a

[00:18:10] : [00:18:12]

better headline and I think you know

[00:18:12] : [00:18:15]

human authenticity will go up in value

[00:18:15] : [00:18:18]

over time as there's more Bots and AIS

[00:18:18] : [00:18:20]

kind of floating around um I I think

[00:18:20] : [00:18:24]

right now in media it's still more

[00:18:24] : [00:18:26]

improving your workflow is a more

[00:18:26] : [00:18:29]

valuable use of AI than creating content

[00:18:29] : [00:18:31]

but the leaps that it's made from input

[00:18:31] : [00:18:33]

to Output to create content in the last

[00:18:33] : [00:18:35]

year are absolutely remarkable and like

[00:18:35] : [00:18:39]

creating images is like 10 years ago you

[00:18:39] : [00:18:40]

know when I was managing smart

[00:18:40] : [00:18:42]

recruiters blog with 400 contributors

[00:18:42] : [00:18:44]

and we had no budget to buy images for

[00:18:44] : [00:18:46]

all these blog posts it was really

[00:18:46] : [00:18:48]

annoying to not be able to make an

[00:18:48] : [00:18:49]

original image and have to always do

[00:18:49] : [00:18:52]

something extra and add it to my job to

[00:18:52] : [00:18:54]

do it so like the idea that you can

[00:18:54] : [00:18:56]

write one good prompt and have one good

[00:18:56] : [00:18:57]

original images or maybe you have to

[00:18:57] : [00:18:59]

write three good prompts to get one good

[00:18:59] : [00:19:01]

original image is a huge difference in

[00:19:01] : [00:19:05]

the blogging space um so and it gives

[00:19:05] : [00:19:07]

your site more of overall feel you know

[00:19:07] : [00:19:10]

if you use a good prompt like uh diction

[00:19:10] : [00:19:12]

language and consistency you know you're

[00:19:12] : [00:19:14]

all the images on your site are going to

[00:19:14] : [00:19:18]

feel more like one brand so um I'm I'm

[00:19:18] : [00:19:20]

waiting and seeing I'm curious uh what

[00:19:20] : [00:19:22]

Walter thinks of what AI is doing to us

[00:19:22] : [00:19:25]

now oh geez well I mean I think I I do

[00:19:25] : [00:19:27]

agree with you I think I think the human

[00:19:27] : [00:19:28]

output is generally

[00:19:28] : [00:19:30]

better quality right now um and probably

[00:19:30] : [00:19:32]

will be for some time what I I've yeah

[00:19:32] : [00:19:34]

I've been using I mean so when I was

[00:19:34] : [00:19:36]

working at Tech crunch we had a we

[00:19:36] : [00:19:39]

onboarded an Analytics tool that was uh

[00:19:39] : [00:19:41]

AI powered in the back end and it was I

[00:19:41] : [00:19:43]

only really found it useful in that it

[00:19:43] : [00:19:45]

did so it did something call the content

[00:19:45] : [00:19:46]

helpfulness analysis where it would

[00:19:46] : [00:19:47]

basically would you know it would you

[00:19:47] : [00:19:50]

know parse your text and spit out a

[00:19:50] : [00:19:51]

result as far as like it was as helpful

[00:19:51] : [00:19:53]

to the reader as far as like and it

[00:19:53] : [00:19:54]

would it was it was pretty good as far

[00:19:54] : [00:19:56]

as the quality of the summary but it

[00:19:56] : [00:19:57]

didn't necessarily tell me anything I

[00:19:57] : [00:19:59]

didn't know like if you were an editor

[00:19:59] : [00:20:01]

who had put the story together you would

[00:20:01] : [00:20:02]

have seen all the same things that the

[00:20:02] : [00:20:04]

AI saw going in on the on the front end

[00:20:04] : [00:20:06]

so it was like the only really useful

[00:20:06] : [00:20:08]

thing was after an article was written

[00:20:08] : [00:20:10]

it would spit out here are some

[00:20:10] : [00:20:11]

suggested headlines you can use in

[00:20:11] : [00:20:12]

social media and that was actually a

[00:20:12] : [00:20:15]

timesaver because it was based on my

[00:20:15] : [00:20:17]

excellent headline and honestly creating

[00:20:17] : [00:20:19]

headlines to repackage your content on

[00:20:19] : [00:20:21]

social media it's kind of boring work

[00:20:21] : [00:20:23]

that like doesn't take a lot of creative

[00:20:23] : [00:20:24]

creative thought here's the thing I

[00:20:24] : [00:20:26]

would say about generative AI is that

[00:20:26] : [00:20:28]

it's not good it's not bad I think it's

[00:20:28] : [00:20:30]

just basically it's the average of

[00:20:30] : [00:20:31]

everything right so it's never going to

[00:20:31] : [00:20:33]

be it's never going to blow your socks

[00:20:33] : [00:20:35]

off because it's just the average of

[00:20:35] : [00:20:37]

everything which which can make it you

[00:20:37] : [00:20:39]

know it's it's a tuna it's a tuna fish

[00:20:39] : [00:20:42]

sandwich it's fine but it's not like I'm

[00:20:42] : [00:20:44]

not gonna like you got to go try this

[00:20:44] : [00:20:45]

tuna fish sandwich it's amazing because

[00:20:45] : [00:20:47]

it's like the best tuna fish sandwich in

[00:20:47] : [00:20:49]

the world is going to be fine I think so

[00:20:49] : [00:20:50]

it's kind of like that for me that's the

[00:20:50] : [00:20:53]

analogy I would

[00:20:53] : [00:20:53]

use

[00:20:53] : [00:20:58]

um David if you wanted to follow up as

[00:20:58] : [00:20:59]

as well I was going to Pig you back go

[00:20:59] : [00:21:00]

ahead yeah I just wanted to say that

[00:21:00] : [00:21:02]

sounds super interesting so it seems

[00:21:02] : [00:21:04]

like both of you think it's a it's a

[00:21:04] : [00:21:07]

solid tool but not yet and probably

[00:21:07] : [00:21:10]

never uh going to replace the human

[00:21:10] : [00:21:11]

authenticity

[00:21:11] : [00:21:13]

component well here's what I would say

[00:21:13] : [00:21:17]

this this is this is dumb so before I

[00:21:17] : [00:21:18]

worked in Tech journalism I work as a a

[00:21:18] : [00:21:21]

local journalist here in San Francisco

[00:21:21] : [00:21:24]

and my zone included uh Ocean Beach all

[00:21:24] : [00:21:25]

the way out like you know people surf

[00:21:25] : [00:21:28]

and so so forth and uh there's an

[00:21:28] : [00:21:29]

article one day where there's a beach

[00:21:29] : [00:21:33]

clean up at Ocean Beach where the uh the

[00:21:33] : [00:21:36]

band Metallica like all those guys who

[00:21:36] : [00:21:37]

live locally they're doing they're doing

[00:21:37] : [00:21:41]

a beach cleanup and so the headline I

[00:21:41] : [00:21:45]

came up with was enter sand

[00:21:45] : [00:21:45]

men now I think that's pretty good and I

[00:21:45] : [00:21:49]

got a lot of great feedback on that

[00:21:49] : [00:21:51]

right but I don't see how generative AI

[00:21:51] : [00:21:53]

could ever have come up with that

[00:21:53] : [00:21:55]

headline um I'm not saying that's good

[00:21:55] : [00:21:56]

or bad I just don't think it's it's not

[00:21:56] : [00:21:59]

we're not there yet and so so it's got

[00:21:59] : [00:22:00]

real limitations if you want to just

[00:22:00] : [00:22:02]

basically like you know fill fill some

[00:22:02] : [00:22:05]

column inches of stuff that sounds okay

[00:22:05] : [00:22:07]

but doesn't really excite anyone it's

[00:22:07] : [00:22:09]

fine but it's I don't think it's gender

[00:22:09] : [00:22:11]

AI it's not going to be like you know

[00:22:11] : [00:22:12]

the letter from your grandmother telling

[00:22:12] : [00:22:14]

you how proud she is of you you're never

[00:22:14] : [00:22:15]

going to be that moved I don't think by

[00:22:15] : [00:22:18]

anything not for a while it's gonna be a

[00:22:18] : [00:22:20]

long time yeah I would add we like we

[00:22:20] : [00:22:22]

our business is publishing texts that's

[00:22:22] : [00:22:24]

like our primary focus but the use cases

[00:22:24] : [00:22:26]

we found for the AI growths haven't

[00:22:26] : [00:22:28]

really been as much text

[00:22:28] : [00:22:30]

like we had a project where we

[00:22:30] : [00:22:32]

introduced 22 categories at top our

[00:22:32] : [00:22:35]

35,000 tags and how do you put the

[00:22:35] : [00:22:38]

35,000 tags into the 22 categories now

[00:22:38] : [00:22:40]

that's a great one for a large language

[00:22:40] : [00:22:43]

model it can very accurately say this is

[00:22:43] : [00:22:45]

the tag and I can make the case why it

[00:22:45] : [00:22:47]

belongs in one category or another and

[00:22:47] : [00:22:49]

we have to make 35,000 choices which I

[00:22:49] : [00:22:51]

don't want to do so th that was a use

[00:22:51] : [00:22:53]

case where like AI was awesome and it

[00:22:53] : [00:22:55]

recat it added a layer of categorization

[00:22:55] : [00:22:58]

at top of our content and it was a great

[00:22:58] : [00:22:59]

use case but it has nothing to do with

[00:22:59] : [00:23:03]

generative you know so it's it's um the

[00:23:03] : [00:23:06]

use cases we're still finding um like

[00:23:06] : [00:23:08]

logo creation is getting pretty good I'm

[00:23:08] : [00:23:09]

a little more bullish on the image

[00:23:09] : [00:23:11]

creation than the text creation um and

[00:23:11] : [00:23:13]

it's definitely changing our lives but I

[00:23:13] : [00:23:15]

I'm with Walter that the humans are

[00:23:15] : [00:23:17]

still better writers and even if they're

[00:23:17] : [00:23:18]

not better writers there's a

[00:23:18] : [00:23:21]

psychological effect of you want to hear

[00:23:21] : [00:23:23]

from another human and that will remain

[00:23:23] : [00:23:25]

true as humans of all we don't want to

[00:23:25] : [00:23:27]

hear from a machine as much as we want

[00:23:27] : [00:23:29]

to hear from a human and that that

[00:23:29] : [00:23:31]

psychological effect even if the quality

[00:23:31] : [00:23:33]

gets completely equal if we believe it's

[00:23:33] : [00:23:35]

from a machine and not a person we're

[00:23:35] : [00:23:39]

gonna lose trust in

[00:23:39] : [00:23:39]

it gotcha um I'm curious as well Walter

[00:23:39] : [00:23:45]

you you you said actually both of you

[00:23:45] : [00:23:49]

guys have a little bit of background um

[00:23:49] : [00:23:51]

working at companies as well before is

[00:23:51] : [00:23:54]

there anything in thinking back to your

[00:23:54] : [00:23:57]

days um uh working on kind of the

[00:23:57] : [00:23:59]

marketing side

[00:23:59] : [00:24:00]

is there anything that you think right

[00:24:00] : [00:24:03]

now that AI is useful

[00:24:03] : [00:24:08]

for um for marketers or for Founders who

[00:24:08] : [00:24:10]

are trying to reach out to the media

[00:24:10] : [00:24:14]

without kind of Crossing that line and

[00:24:14] : [00:24:17]

creating a full you know pitch out of uh

[00:24:17] : [00:24:19]

using chat GPT and and and nothing

[00:24:19] : [00:24:22]

original is there anything that you do

[00:24:22] : [00:24:24]

think is useful for right now that they

[00:24:24] : [00:24:26]

can

[00:24:26] : [00:24:29]

leverage if I may I would I would trust

[00:24:29] : [00:24:32]

and I use the word trust lightly I I

[00:24:32] : [00:24:34]

would trust like chat GPT to give me a

[00:24:34] : [00:24:36]

list of like give me a list of

[00:24:36] : [00:24:38]

journalists who have written about uh

[00:24:38] : [00:24:40]

generative AI from a critical

[00:24:40] : [00:24:42]

perspective in the last three months

[00:24:42] : [00:24:44]

like I would and I would and then it

[00:24:44] : [00:24:45]

would it would give me a list and then I

[00:24:45] : [00:24:47]

could look at that list and like do a

[00:24:47] : [00:24:49]

couple of checks on the list to see like

[00:24:49] : [00:24:51]

and then I would know what like and I so

[00:24:51] : [00:24:52]

there's there's some ways I think

[00:24:52] : [00:24:55]

directionally that I could use AI in my

[00:24:55] : [00:24:58]

work to kind of save some time or or or

[00:24:58] : [00:25:00]

to aggregate information that's already

[00:25:00] : [00:25:02]

out there um but at the same time I also

[00:25:02] : [00:25:04]

like I know that like whatever I get I

[00:25:04] : [00:25:07]

have to rigorously check for Quality and

[00:25:07] : [00:25:09]

accuracy because the AI can can

[00:25:09] : [00:25:11]

hallucinate uh and that's and and you

[00:25:11] : [00:25:13]

know I don't I don't want to be putting

[00:25:13] : [00:25:14]

stuff out there that's fake so like I

[00:25:14] : [00:25:16]

got to make sure I'm vetting the the

[00:25:16] : [00:25:18]

work it produces right yeah I think

[00:25:18] : [00:25:20]

building lists is really useful building

[00:25:20] : [00:25:22]

relevant lists it it just it can it can

[00:25:22] : [00:25:25]

do that um we've been using seamless on

[00:25:25] : [00:25:27]

the marketing and sales side they have a

[00:25:27] : [00:25:29]

massive dat base of emails so then once

[00:25:29] : [00:25:31]

you build the list you target it more

[00:25:31] : [00:25:33]

and more and you can build a email list

[00:25:33] : [00:25:36]

for cold Outreach um also I mean

[00:25:36] : [00:25:38]

spitting up landing pages in decks

[00:25:38] : [00:25:41]

faster and more efficiently marketers

[00:25:41] : [00:25:43]

and Le it's it's worth it uh you know

[00:25:43] : [00:25:46]

because on the there's a few tools um

[00:25:46] : [00:25:47]

like in terms of landing pages I've been

[00:25:47] : [00:25:50]

using bal's AI tool and I can prompt I

[00:25:50] : [00:25:52]

can describe what type of landing page I

[00:25:52] : [00:25:54]

want and then it actually builds the

[00:25:54] : [00:25:56]

code and I can then move the code over

[00:25:56] : [00:25:58]

to a developer and it designer so now

[00:25:58] : [00:26:02]

I'm moving from prompts to HTML which is

[00:26:02] : [00:26:03]

really nice in terms of getting a page

[00:26:03] : [00:26:05]

out quickly and getting my the outline

[00:26:05] : [00:26:07]

of my idea there and instead of passing

[00:26:07] : [00:26:09]

off a design file I'm actually passing

[00:26:09] : [00:26:11]

off code and and it's the same amount of

[00:26:11] : [00:26:13]

time so that that I think is something

[00:26:13] : [00:26:15]

that like I would definitely look

[00:26:15] : [00:26:18]

towards in building decks it's just a

[00:26:18] : [00:26:20]

good deck is still done by a human but

[00:26:20] : [00:26:23]

the idea of like speeding you write the

[00:26:23] : [00:26:25]

script of the deck and it makes it flow

[00:26:25] : [00:26:27]

a little better and gives you a little

[00:26:27] : [00:26:28]

better image

[00:26:28] : [00:26:30]

you can it's just much faster than it

[00:26:30] : [00:26:32]

was you know with a even with a canva

[00:26:32] : [00:26:34]

tool or a Google Sheets tool so more

[00:26:34] : [00:26:35]

quickly you have a new offering that you

[00:26:35] : [00:26:37]

want to have and you have a meeting

[00:26:37] : [00:26:39]

coming up with your lead you can just

[00:26:39] : [00:26:41]

have a deck custom to them in the

[00:26:41] : [00:26:43]

offering a little quicker so I think on

[00:26:43] : [00:26:45]

that image creation and code creation

[00:26:45] : [00:26:47]

side of it you can save a good bit of

[00:26:47] : [00:26:48]

time in your

[00:26:48] : [00:26:50]

workflow awesome yeah and that

[00:26:50] : [00:26:52]

translates to Founders as well I mean uh

[00:26:52] : [00:26:56]

for for a pitch deck um you know you

[00:26:56] : [00:26:57]

know save a bunch of time there as well

[00:26:57] : [00:27:01]

so um well I know we've uh we started a

[00:27:01] : [00:27:02]

little bit late we held you guys uh past

[00:27:02] : [00:27:05]

the time it's getting uh later there in

[00:27:05] : [00:27:09]

in Colorado and in uh in California um

[00:27:09] : [00:27:11]

so I wanted to thank both of our mentors

[00:27:11] : [00:27:14]

Walter Thompson uh for uh for staying

[00:27:14] : [00:27:16]

with us and he has covid too so another

[00:27:16] : [00:27:19]

a big a big round of applause for uh for

[00:27:19] : [00:27:21]

him and congrats again Walter on the

[00:27:21] : [00:27:23]

launch of the new podcast um and as and

[00:27:23] : [00:27:26]

as well uh David smook um CEO of of

[00:27:26] : [00:27:28]

hacker noon thank than you both

[00:27:28] : [00:27:30]

gentlemen for for speaking with us

[00:27:30] : [00:27:33]

today thanks for having us pleasure

[00:27:33] : [00:27:37]

thanks all right take care everybody

[00:27:37] : [00:27:37]


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