Hacker Noon Editor, businesswoman, podcaster, and true crime lover
Happy Pride Month, Hackers! 🏳️🌈 Amy Tom, Linh Dao Smooke, and Kien Dao have a thoughtful conversation about LGBTQ+ culture in the tech industry and intersectional discrimination in the workplace. They also discuss WWDC 2021, the iOS 14.6 privacy update, and security news. 🖤🤍🤎
This Week On Planet Internet, Amy and the Daos get into:
🗒️ SHOW NOTES:
Amy: [00:00:00] This week on planet, internet is rainbow vacation, a problem, or a blessing for the gay community. What is going on with the Apple refresh and updates, and what's happening with JBS foods and the cyber security incidences going on in America right now. So this week on planet, internet.
My name is Amy, Tom, and I am the host of this podcast. And today I'm joined with the Dow's it's Amy on the dose. How exciting is this? We have linked, does smoke and she is the COO. And we have a new guest on the podcast, Ken Dow, and he is. The brother of link Del smoke and the designer of hacker noon. So welcome to the podcast, right?
Executive. Oh my gosh. Brand executive. Excuse me. I've been corrected anyway. So let's start by sharing our new hacker noon website. It is a rainbow of five. And that is why we would like to chat about the rainbow vacation of logos of marketing material. And so I wanted to share this Instagram post that is from a Instagram handle called.
So you want to talk about, and it's called re it's talking about rainbow washing and rainbow vacation. So Ling, can you share what your thoughts are on rainbow washing?
Linh: [00:01:29] Absolutely by the way. I just want to say that I want to redeem myself in this podcast by having crystal clear audio quality. And I want to apologize to all of them, the previous listeners of the previous podcast, we have to endure it.
My background noise. I am sorry. All right. Let's dive deep into rainbow washing. What is it? Obviously it's pride month. Happy pride everyone. And if you have not been living under the rock, you should have seen that. Most of your favorite brands and corporations and companies have put on either immersed store or changed their logo, changed the look of their website to look like rainbow, in celebration of pride month, us not an exception because just like Amy show, we did it as well.
But I want to talk about what the implication of. Of this rainbow vacation of everything, Ashley is in cooperate and capitalist culture, a lot of skeptics and a lot of people on the left have a backlash and rightfully criticizing. That this is just a marketing ploy motion validation of something that means so much to people as the LGBTQ community movement towards equality and justice.
And I would say that as the leader of hacker noon, we are committed to not doing that. And we want to address that head-on and we want to. First of all, would direct people to this article. This Instagram article it's beautiful. It has a lot of resources on how to check whether or not the collaborations that you support.
Ashley put the money behind the cost. So that's number one is it's important to see the motivations. Number two. Rainbow. And the fact that we celebrate pride is not in and of itself bad, right? Like it is important that we have this month. We have like all of this, color's just washing over us and telling us that the LGBTQ community has come a long way.
So in and of itself is not bad. Now what's bad. Is that a lot of corporations actually. Take advantage of this and how you can see that for yourself. Now, we at happening by no way and no chance in hell would ever make profit out of our ramification of the hackathon logo and the hackathon banner, as you see, what we do want to do though, is to just tell a community of 3 million readers a month.
A lot of them. Bros. Like, that's the only way I can say it. Like a lot of them are male, like in the age group of 18 to 25 that we support LGBTQ friends and readers and writers, and we are here to committing to do more. And that's all I have to say on the matter go check out. So you want to talk about, I love that account and I'm still getting educated to this day on important topics.
Amy: [00:04:38] Yeah, I absolutely agree with everything that you said. I think the contention or the point of being able to tell whether a company is truly behind the cause, or just wants to profit off of that is whether they're giving money to the cause and, or ensuring that they're not. Profiting off of it, like making an LGBTQ plus version of their product or whatever it might be profiting off of the sales, even if they donate some of the sales to the organizations that support LGBTQ Q plus, you're still profiting off of the idea of yeah, that whole, like you're jumping on the bandwagon essentially, and you're not really truly getting behind the cause of it.
Do you think Lang as a tech organization that rainbow washing or not wearing blue washing, but rainbow vacation is controversial?
Linh: [00:05:31] I think it could be, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't address it or shouldn't talk about it or should in I always come back to this quote, right?
Like in situation of justice if you stay silent, then you remain with the oppressor. So we don't want to like remain silent and just pretend that we are neutral about the LGBTQ movement and the fight for justice within the, our queer community at the same time.
It's hard for me as a woman of color, as well as the tech executive running this whole show, knowing that a lot of our readers, a lot of our writers more conservative and a more skeptical of for example, the time that we put up the black banner about black lives matter back in may last year.
And this time as well, but that doesn't mean that we should not talk about it or should not address it. That just means that we have to be mindful and aware. Like one of the slides in here did talk about how you can check for like the intention by going to some kind of index that see if the corporations actually donate to LGBTQ.
Anti anti LGBTQ, cause as such as donating to politicians that do like anti-trans or anti-gay bills. So that could be one way that we could direct the attention of our readers and our listeners. To that kind of resources, but yeah, this is absolutely the beginning of what we can do as an organization.
And we should not, and we will not stop here. This is just like opening up a, an invitation to for our readers to think about it. A lot of them, again, as established bros are male, a younger.
Amy: [00:07:12] Yup. That website, I will just say audio wise is progressive shopper.com so that you can check that out.
And I'll put that in the show notes as well. And I also really what you said about being open and moving forward, because I think we're humans. We're not always perfect. I know for myself, I'm always on a journey to learn more and to correct myself, like I think if you can prove, if you can say, look back at five years, yourself, five years ago and see all the things that you thought were right.
But now you now think are wrong. That's growth. And that's you're willing to make a change. So I hope that's how I want to be as a person. And that's the kind of company that I want to work for that would acknowledge that. Things are changing and that we're having our ears to the ground and we're listening.
So Keon, what is it like in Vietnam where you're from, in terms of branding around LGBTQ plus?
Brother: [00:08:06] I think that's a very great question, Amy. In terms of LGBT two matters I would say the youth The youth, the January, the millennials are really trying hard to to provide as much information as possible to do as much act, to act as much as possible.
And to try to convince the basically the whole the government, the country to like, to care more about the matter, like for the time being to care more about the matter and I feel as a developing country, we are making pretty good progress. I remember back in 2015 it was a long process, but the bill for accepting gay marriage.
In Vietnam has finally been passed. And I remember that that was a very joyful time. Yeah. And went out into the streets and we parade we, we flags everywhere and people, I go Trescott and celebrate you, the bill being passed. And I feel like that, that was one of the steps.
For Vietnam to be closer to accepting LGBTQ matters. Yeah, but I would say re there's still a long way to go for Vietnam. Definitely. Like we still have a lot to catch up with a lot of giving raising awareness for people, but we are getting there. And yeah, I think I'm pretty proud about small steps, but, make a big impact.
Amy: [00:09:29] Yeah. When I think about LGBTP LG, D L G
LSD. When I think about LSU I think about LGBTQ plus in an international sense, I think it's. I feel sad. I am intrigued. I'm confused because for me growing up in Canada, I have always been exposed to gay culture, I think. And of, I have really progressive parents. I think that's all topped. Yeah, I've grown up with this like rainbow vacation of things, and I've never really, I had not really put too much thought into it until adult life. When I realized that, in places like India or more conservative places where there are people. Who are ma I don't know how to even describe this. Like people who are more on the right. I have no idea of people who just don't believe in gay marriage or gay rights or equal opportunities or things like that.
And it's almost shocking to me, like it's a culture shock to think about that. Because in North America and especially in Canada, it's it's so normalized, yeah.
Linh: [00:10:46] That's why I'm like even doubly proud of Vietnam being such a conservative country in other matters that was still able to pass that bill.
I feel like the government really did something right there. I remember the pride. I felt the pride. I felt that day and just going on the street with all of our friends many of whom are Like a older actually like the LGBTQ movement in Vietnam. I feel is a lot more progressive than a lot of other classes that like the younger people were trying to do.
Brother: [00:11:20] And also I forgot to bring this up, but recently a candidate or and w how do you call it? Or the. Is it Congress, I think. Okay. I think it was Congress so attended. We finally have a LG, LGBTQ, TBI, LGBTQ plus member who is a candidate for the Congreso like. To us like the youngster, like it, it was like totally bold move.
And we are, we're very proud of him. Other than being a pretty successful lawyer, like he has done so many things for the community and to be actually brave enough to apply. To be a candidate for Congress. And even though it had sparked control among many people.
But I, I feel that, I feel like control a show matters are good. Like it shows that people care, like people are actually like noticing him and and how he's presenting himself as a candidate. And that's part like multiple arguments, like around On social media on different platforms. And yeah I think it's it's a good day for Vietnam.
It's a very good day.
Amy: [00:12:24] Yeah, let's talk about how we have rainbow fide, the hacker noon logo. And that is also why I am very keen to chat with you, Ken, who is the brand executive, excuse me, and the hacker noon brand. And so can you run us through this article that you wrote on hacker noon.com about the re not rebranding, but rainbow furcation of the hacker?
Brother: [00:12:52] Sure. Thank you, Amy. So I wrote this article it, by the way, it's my second article. It may not be a good read, but it's a really good read. You should totally read it.
Amy: [00:13:03] We'd listen, Ken wrote it. I edited it. Perfect. We're the perfect combo. Oh, yeah, the flaw there. I can't
Linh: [00:13:15] yeah.
Your research. What, what went on now?
Brother: [00:13:20] So as a. Brand executive or diviner or a creator of some kind. I feel very strongly that we should put much not a lot, but like an adequate amount of research into what we are defining and into what we are trying to deliver. And especially when it comes to pride I feel like we can learn more and more about it every day about pride.
And so I did a little bit of research and to. Separate ourselves from other companies that are also ring rainbow, finding themselves these days. I decided to go with the they call it the pro progress. Pride flag divide by Daniel Cosara back in 2018. And what's interesting. What's very great.
What's exciting about the flag is that incorporate the color of transgender people and pupil of color. And if you go back to the history of pride back in 1969 the very first pride riot the If it were not for people of color and transgender people pride would have never happened.
And I, I feel very strongly about the deflect that, that emphasize the importance of their book, their work for everything they've done with price. And yeah, I decided to go with with the rate with a rainbow color and the one, two, three, four, five, six extra color. And incorporate them into the hackathon logo.
There's a whole tutorial here on how to on how to help you guys create the logo of your choice and to rainbow by it. So I won't bother you with that. I want to tell a little bit of the intersection between the fixed collar and and the five new, newly added color. It, they are diagonal and until like they create some sort of interaction and intersection of color, which is where like when two lines meet and in the middle, that's where they they share everything like that.
That's where like everything, everything on each of the lines have the fame in common in that very intersection in that very dark. And so I. Feel this can help bring the meaning of pride closer to people. So I, I want people to understand more of what pride mean and what pride can help you understand more about humanity in general.
And so by having that by having them like inter intersecting in an intersection that I hope to have. From some sort of reality where people all meet in one point and share all the familiarity, similarity with each other and have all the mutual understanding for each other.
So that's the depth of about I,
Amy: [00:16:00] I feel like I think it's a huge point in LGBTQ plus. Culture as well, because like you were saying, these people have been instrumental in bringing awareness and T to the community and the idea of having to face multiple layers of racism, sexism It's yeah, it's heavy.
And S and I, that's why I appreciate that. We have added this into the rainbow of vacation of the hacker new logo as well. This is the first year that I've seen this become more popular. Would you say that's true Keon.
Brother: [00:16:39] This black has been around since 2018. It was originally the flag of Philadelphia state, but it wasn't until 2020.
When did black life black lives matter movement become popular globally that the designer for that flag decided to income to, to popularize the flag more. And so I would say From 2020 until now it to been more and more widely used. And I hope for it to be even more widely used.
Yeah. By many
Amy: [00:17:09] people. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. I think that, yeah, that also comes down to partially the admittance that you were wrong. Like when you, as a brand, decide to add the intersectionality into your mix, when you, maybe weren't doing that before, you're acknowledging that this is a new era and we've, we're moving past, or we're trying to move forward and support.
See a people of color as well. So thank you very much, Ken, for sharing that story. And I also wanted to chat with you, the Apple lover about the Apple recap. I assume that you watched every single minute of it. Is it true?
Brother: [00:17:49] Let me take it to the water,
Linh: [00:17:51] honestly, ever since I knew him, which is all of his supplies, he has been the biggest Apple fanatic and his, the first gift Apple thing.
And I think they have evidence of this online. Let me find it somewhere. But in this show as when I was 22 years old and he was. 13. And I send back home in Vietnam and iPod, and he literally cried his heart, like eyes out. Like he was like balling, opening the thing. And ever since there's this Apple conference, like I have never not seen him like being so excited about Apple.
Like last podcast, we like talk about our kind of love for Apple, right? Oh my God. He is a different level.
Amy: [00:18:44] So you got him his first Apple product.
Brother: [00:18:48] Yeah. I've still got that iPod and it doesn't really work anymore, but it's intro souvenir, like it saved my technology that I ever owned.
Amy: [00:18:57] Yeah. So what do you think about Monterey?
Take me to the meat. What do you think about moderate? Dammit.
Brother: [00:19:07] All right. All right. Okay. So I'm most excited for the fact that Lyft Monterey. First of all, I love the name entree. They took me there. It's a very peaceful What is it like a state? No, if that's damn sorry, a the County very beautiful.
And what's amazing about the Mecca with Monterey is that it's a function called universal control. And so what it does exactly. If you have APC, you have a, I'm sorry, you have an iMac or a Mac book and you have an iPad. So basically you can do everything. Across all three devices. So like for example, you can drag your cursor from your Mac book onto the iPad, and you can export the file on the iPad and drag it back onto the back book.
And you can copy from text or some image on the Mac book and paste it on the iPad. So basically a much stronger ecosystem than what Apple is currently having. And I can't tell you, I can, I can't really Shreds. Enough, like how much, like how drastically it would change my life.
Amy: [00:20:14] I was going to say that I feel like a lot of the Apple things that they released in this conference were very focused towards content, creators and designers.
Brother: [00:20:25] Yeah, that's true. And developer of too, but w we'll touch on that. But like for example, I use procreate a lot and I know that Amy you've proclaimed a lot up to a great artist, by the way she gave me like a painting of a dog or a cat the other day. And I was like, totally mind blown, like the color, everything you shouldn't add.
Okay. Back to procreate. So I usually have to draw something maybe a design element or a or a mock up of from tide. And so what I have to do with, I have to export it and then PNG or Adobe Photoshop file and then have to airdrop it all the way to my Mac book. And I have to wait 15 to a minute, 15 seconds to a minute or my Mac book to repeat the file.
And then I have to open the file on my back with the universal control. You can actually the file is right in here. You can drag it, you can drag it onto your desktop and onto your wallpaper and open it right away. Like literally
Amy: [00:21:26] like
Brother: [00:21:30] screaming right now. But I think Okay. People are like on Fe. I may be overreacting, but I think you are, under-reacting like to how universal control is like remember.
Linh: [00:21:41] Let's switch gears a little bit.
I sweat as related, but all so I want to talk about this whole kind of move to privacy that like this new 14.6. Yeah. So I just, this morning updated my iOS to the 14.6 version. This is the verifying update kind of screenshot for our audio listeners. And then I went on Facebook because I'm a millennial and it says you are on iOS 14.6.
This version requires us to ask for permission to track some data from this device to improve your ads. Then I'm done and I'm like, okay, that's new. And then say what it actually does in terms of like tracking. And then it has this pop-up that says, do you want to allow Facebook to track your activity across other companies, apps and websites?
That is the first time I think an iOS update actually transparently tells you that you can opt in or opt out of being tracked across the web. And I think it has something to do with masking your hype-y or something. I don't know. Developers. Yeah. That's, I don't know, the skeptic in me says that, wow, this is just Apple being so Apple.
And great at marketing again, because what Apple has always been good at is direct relation and direct kind of like stickiness with the users. And as users, our generation, the gen Z, even though the lead millennials and just small privacy focus, it's like switch, of course we gonna, make this move.
We gonna. Make it all about privacy at the cost of advertisers and smaller companies that depend on Apple, on Apple marketplace and on the app store. So yeah, just thought to bring it up because that's pretty interesting,
Brother: [00:23:44] Had, so maybe as a millennial, you haven't- run into much. Bam. Yeah. So imagine like having something inappropriate, pop up on your ad and, or like looking at it, you might change your mind, but yeah, I would say a different face, pretty consistent route for Apple.
For three years in a row now. So the Iowa 14.5 order to bring the clarity, like the, bring the transparent food to use, like they in their work, in Apple's word that you've developed to know how and where they are being tracked and this year, like they take the ticket to another level, like with introducing iCloud fluff.
So if you have, or have an already know iCloud as we use today, like they have. Basically everything on like our data on there. So Apple defy too, level it up one bit. So from now on using cloud we can get away from all the tracking from internet. So you know how the internet is tracking of via our IP address.
And so like some of the time, like when you, when we're talking about I would say banana bread and banana bread, And I wouldn't find myself. I wouldn't be surprised if I see a banana bread ad on my Facebook, 12, 20 minutes later. And I club clubs like prevent that. And so with I won't go into the details, but like you, by using Safari you can browse everything without.
Being scared of being tracked.
Amy: [00:25:12] I think that would let the privacy information. What I read, I'm not sure this is a hundred percent accurate, so don't call me on this. But what I've read is that Facebook is really upset of about Apple cutting this down because it cuts away all, a lot of their advertising data for location information.
So they, they were saying that like Facebook was used to track your location via other apps, like your photos. Using the GPS location and things like that, where as now it locks that down. So if you say through your phone, don't share your location data with Facebook. They actually can't access it even though they could before via other apps, which I think is interesting.
So that's where their panic is that they can't locate the person. And so the ads won't be as targeted.
Brother: [00:25:59] But I do have to bring an interesting point to where Apple's marketing the private fee strategy fo the showing your yourself from being tracked on the internet only works on Safari and it won't work on other browsers.
And currently for Prairie, if not the most popularly used website. And like I think tying back to all different, it's just another marketing strategy for Apple to popularize their app more. And I think, I know I think they're getting their way, like they're getting there. I feel like there's more and more people.
Linh: [00:26:34] It was signaled to the market that like a big enough company is doing it and you better compete and you better follow suit. Like the most recent example. I forgot I have to go back to that podcast, but it's something Apple also did on his app store. And then Chrome kinda immediately did it like the month after, because it's like the battle for who controls the market.
And if consumers just keep coming back to Apple, then Chrome, even though it controls the majority of the thing, right? Has to follow suit. Yeah, let's talk. All right.
Amy: [00:27:10] I would like to move on to the security incidents that are happening in America right now. So I think cybersecurity wise and the news in America is really exciting.
Maybe not exciting is not the right word, because a lot of things are bad. Things are happening, but like very hot news right now. So this past week, JBS. Is a, it's a foods company and they produce meats in America and they had a security incident, a security breach around somewhere attack. And they basically shut down.
I think that they shut down their systems. And so their employees couldn't log in or couldn't get into the building or something. So people weren't able to work. And because people weren't able to go to work the production of meat, Dropped by 25% for the week. And so they're anticipating the prices of meat to rise and the distribution to be more challenging.
And I guess the variety to be lessened. I think it's interesting that this comes after the colonial pipeline attack, which happened a few a month ago, two months ago now which talked with the colonial pipeline company who produced a quarter of America's. Gas and so increase the fuel costs of in America.
Where are you familiar with this? Sorry, go ahead.
Linh: [00:28:28] With the JBS foods. I think you summarize it very well. I learned that from this hack in an article, so good job, Tara. Yeah. But yeah, I remember about the colonial pipeline ransomware as well as the attack. Yes. It. We based in North America, in America.
So we care about these three, but apparently there have been incidents in like the Ukraine some European countries as well of like criminals that just kinda increase incidents of cyber security attack and ransomware attack on different facets of life. Society, including corporations, but also the government, like the solar wind one actually affects like a good portion of the us government that was using.
And I think it's what it's called, like a supply chain attack. So instead of going to one particular entity, they like go to the, one of the Kind of components, like one of the systems that's operational. Yeah. A lot of companies and a lot of organizations and government entities use to just operate, like you say.
So it's very masterful. It's very hard to track. Like it's almost impossible to trace to the origins of many of these attacks and a lot of the time, like the. Incentive is unclear. Like for example, the ransomware attack, it just with the colonial pipeline, it's just clear that attacker just want like millions and I think today, the CEO or whoever that leads colonial pipeline, like testify against Congress, for his decision to pay the 400 millions and like why that was chest.
But in other times we don't know, like with the solar wind ones or with JBS food one, it could be. It could be like a state funded one and you would never know because some of these are just so like masterfully masks, right? So yeah, I just thought we living in such interesting time and we're talking about this, like Apple privacy move.
And then we also talk about the governments and like corporations, like being aware of justice and stuff. We also have to talk about Like relationships between countries and, all of these pieces just fall together. Like we have the Russia U S relation that went to think about and like how the tiny as well with Chinese 16 elections kinda As a catalyst for a lot of these things obviously I'm speculating like a shit ton here.
So don't quote me on any of these. Yes. Like even like the best detectives and yeah,
Amy: [00:31:09] I think that they're saying that JBS and the colonial pipeline were both speculated to be from Russian attackers. Yeah.
Linh: [00:31:16] So like, why does that mean? Is it just like the inconvenience of people not being able to locked in what else can these people do?
Whoa, it like with a couple of keystrokes, it can turn from Inconvenience to like actual catastrophic, like actual tragedy, if we don't pay attention. And we don't strengthen the security system and not getting ahead of the curve when it comes to cyber attacks. So I think it's like, Extreme important, like national security matters and because it's happening so much more often now the average consumer and the average citizen, like God made aware of it, right?
Like with the colonial pipeline I just remember those images of like people not being able to get gas or like hoard gas. And it's like the ER. Economic impact of that all as low. It just feels more real. Now that happens more often and the impact is being felt on the app.
Amy: [00:32:14] Okay. I feel like this is going to be a weird thing to say, but I feel like if I was a hacker.
I would be really intrigued about doing the research behind these projects that they're doing. Like, how would you identify that the colonial pipeline would have been a good one to target? If we shut down the system, then like how half of America's gas is going to go away? Can you imagine doing all of the research that goes into that?
It seems wild. Yeah. Yeah, because you don't really have to think about
Linh: [00:32:47] the
Amy: [00:32:47] but you, I just you might I don't know, like you'd have to think about the guests, the economic impact, first of all, of the attack. And then you'd have to find your way in, find a vulnerability and then like access into the systems and everything. Like all of the little details, like sending, finding someone who's going to open a malicious link or however you're going to get in there.
Like it's just going, it's interesting to think about the thought process to behind like a hack attack.
Brother: [00:33:14] Yeah, I was just gonna say then you're familiar with black mirror. I feel like this can totally be something like, brought out from a movie and which got me thinking like how close to that reality are like, are we now we're close to that reality where different countries, you have technology to win.
In the competition, like in to win over other countries. And this might be one of the strategy for them to bring down
Linh: [00:33:45] as countries were formed. Really. It's not a new kind of like phenomenon, but what is new about these? Things is like all of these sophisticated kind of like technological advantage that these criminals, these cyber criminals were able to deploy.
Yeah. Not unlike the ones from black mirror. Like the one that came to mind is that BS episode where But like you get depth to someone and then everyone that like do the hashtag desk to someone like got hacked and die.
Have you been on a rock?
Amy: [00:34:26] Yeah. I feel like if you missed it. I've never watched it. I'm not upset. Cause it's been out for a while. I had my chance. Okay. So I actually, the last thing that I want to chat about today is bayzos. He is taking a trip to space just 15 days after he steps down officially from his CEO position at Amazon Bezos will be aborting the blue origin which is the first, his first mission to space.
It's I think he's going to be in space for 11 minutes. Along with his brother and a person some other people who have not been identified yet. And then also one person who is going to be there by which is interesting. Yeah. What do you think about that PM?
Brother: [00:35:12] I don't know. I wonder how much is it?
Can hack a noon, can send me there?
Amy: [00:35:17] What if we all pool together, our life savings and send David to space with Bezos.
Brother: [00:35:23] You know what Amy, I think with that, it would never be enough for us to get a spot there. It has to be true to, to be, to guarantee your spot there.
Amy: [00:35:35] You don't know the personal finances of everyone on this team.
What have we've got to be?
Brother: [00:35:40] Oh, no, I'm sorry. Okay. I should be more respectful to you, Amy,
Amy: [00:35:47] right? No, it's not me. It's not me, but what if it's someone else, but what app.
Brother: [00:35:51] Okay.
Linh: [00:35:55] I say, Oh my goodness, Mark bezels. Who the hell is Mark dissolves? Wow. I might just hearing about him in day. And why the hell does he look like? Like he looks just like Jeff with the mustache.
Amy: [00:36:14] Yeah, that was
Linh: [00:36:15] my mind that he has a brother who
Amy: [00:36:19] is clone the first time he's coming out into public. It's Oh, I'd be honored to go to space with you.
What a debut.
All right. Thank you guys for coming on the podcast. What a vibe today? Sibling vibe. I'm so excited to have been the adopted Dao. Yes. I've been the adopted Dow of the day. Thank you guys for my Dow time.
Okay. Of course, if you liked this episode of the hacker noon podcast, don't forget to subscribe and share it and like it, and also this episode was edited by audio wizard, Alex produced by hacker noon and hosted by me, Amy, Tom, stay weird and we will see you on the internet. Goodbye.
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