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Does the US still hold the key to mass adoption? That’s the trillion-dollar question today! In this interview with 's Chief Strategy Officer and Head of Global Policy, , we examine the role and influence of the United States in the nascent crypto industry. According to Dante, one could argue that a giant company such as Circle would not have been founded anywhere in the world but in the United States. Circle Dante A. Disparte stablecoin During our conversation, I asked Dante if he saw in the demise of Libra, the defunct Facebook-backed cryptocurrency project, a squandered opportunity for the United States to reclaim its global financial leadership and fortify the US dollar. In response, he pointed out that de-dollarisation is a long-range issue bordering on how the rest of the world views the United States dollar as America’s soft power instrument that goes back to the Brenton Woods era, and on the desire for countries to have monetary sovereignty and control of their domestic, economic and monetary environments. In Dante’s view, blockchain technology, notwithstanding its vast potential, is excessively intricate. In 2018 in a , he argued vehemently that we can change the world with blockchain technology when we stop talking about it. Read on for more details! Forbes article Mr. Dante, how would you describe your journey to blockchain technology and web3 coming from a 20-year career in entrepreneurship and business? First of all, it is great to have a chat with you. The way I found blockchain is in many ways the way people find most new industries. The industry or the technology finds you; you don’t find it. So, I was originally looking at this industry from the lens of insurance and risks. A lot of the early companies in the crypto space like Bitfury and others that were doing Bitcoin mining activities came to me looking for help with insurance bordering on things like cyber risk, technology risks, fiduciary and financial crimes, and other risks. So, that’s my original foray into the industry. Does it bother you that the US  losing its global lead in Web 3 as a result of its harsh crypto policies? I wouldn’t like to say anti-crypto policies because right now it looks like the regulatory landscape is not favorable. And then did you see it coming? For one, I wouldn’t say the United States is losing. As a matter of fact, I would recommend to you and your readers an article that I wrote, a couple of years ago, taking the counter-narrative position that is the US losing the digital currency space race. And, as you know very well, a lot of people suggest that unless the United States or the Federal Reserve Board issues a digital dollar of its own and tries to directly compete with the model that is being followed in China somehow the United States will be less relevant in the global economy and in the 21st century and in the digital assets markets. My view is despite some of the regulatory headwinds and despite some of the enforcement actions the crypto industry will be very well advised to remember that no single actor, government, country or enforcement agency caused the crypto industry more harm than the industry caused to itself. The collapse was not the SEC or the CFTC or the Treasury Department or the US government; it was the industry and it was excess risks, greed, and financial alchemy. All the way fast forward to the end of last year the FTX Collapse equally had nothing to do with regulatory actions. It was a blend of fraud and other risks of opportunities. But it was not something the US government did. Terra Luna https://youtu.be/A-d1TKkVu4o?embedable=true If anything, you could argue, with the benefit of hindsight many regulators and policymakers probably would look vindicated in warning about the potential for excess risks in the sector. So it is a little bit more nuanced, and I don’t think this is a zero-sum proposition where the United States is necessarily losing ground or where any country or company has to win at another company or country’s expense. In 2019 you described the uproar that followed the launch of Facebook’s cryptocurrency, Libra, as ‘oversimplification”. I would like you to buttress on this. What does that mean? I have had a front-row seat in the public policy discussion about money, the future of money, and the current state of affairs. I would do it all over again including the many awkward hours and often complex hours in public testimony either as a witness or sitting next to the witness in Congressional, Senate, and other hearings around the world. Frankly, my motivation for joining the Libra project even in failure was that it was a platform big enough to have a conversation about issues that I don’t think the world would be discussing if it wasn’t for Libra. For example, is it really your money if you have to pay someone to spend it and if you have to pay someone to hold it for you? For example, if you care about financial inclusion as,  such a global systemic problem, what better pathway to include more people in the formal economy than a large-scale digital transformation of the global financial system? And I think without the Libra project, things like the Central Bank Digital Currency would have remained in abstraction; and without the Libra project, I do think a lot of the developments that we now take for granted in fintech, in digital assets and in banking probably would not have happened without Libra. So I would have done it all over again. There is one crucial question I would like to ask now: do you see in the demise of Libra a missed opportunity for the United States to reclaim its financial leadership and strengthen the dollar or was Mark Zuckerberg merely amping up the worries over China's rise in recent times? Well as you can imagine, former Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson wrote an article on foreign policy basically saying that a currency and a trusted currency is the sum of the part. For example, if you are going to create a Digital Zimbabwean Dollar then you would have the sum of the part but in digital form, and that perhaps would not be a great innovation either in ones and zeros or in paper. This is partly because of the hyperinflationary nature of the currency, and so many of the world’s currencies–the publicly issued world’s currencies--are not worth the paper they are printed on. And so, I think this notion of de-dollarisation and the economic competitiveness of the US Dollar is a real issue. But the issue is not about the dollar itself as much as it is an issue about the payment rails on which the dollar rides. So much of the war taking place between central bank digital currencies and alternative payment networks is about creating sanction resistant network of payments so that from a geopolitical and geoeconomic vantage point the US soft power is blunted but that is a multi-decade slow-boiled change of the global economy. It is not something that just happened overnight because a digital currency is issued by a rival central bank or a rival country. It is something I think is a long-range issue. The reason the dollar is the global reserve currency is in no small measure because of the ability to transmit the dollar across multiple different channels on a global scale. There hasn’t been a time when the need for financial innovation in the United States is a front-burner issue than now. You are going to agree with me that there is a gradual decline in web3 innovation following some of the anti-crypto policies and you have the SEC to blame partly for this. Do you see this decline as a dangerous trend? I don’t actually. I’m wired personally an all-ships-rising person and you could argue that a company like Circle probably would not have been started anywhere in the world but in the United States.  However, the fact that many more jurisdictions around the world are now starting to enable responsible innovation in financial services and technology, fintech, and in digital assets is encouraging. Ideally, there would be more Circles developed in more places around the world but the Circles of the world would find more venues and more jurisdiction to stop the very dangerous race to the bottom regulatory arbitrage that has made crypto in its maiden decade scary, opaque and bad for consumers, bad for markets, bad for regulators and bad for people. If you care about all of those things done well, then we need to race to the top in terms of trust, transparency, and accountability as opposed to the race to the bottom. I think the race to the bottom cost crypto  2 trillion dollars. Why is mass adoption a major challenge today and do you see the United States changing the narrative anytime soon? There is no question. Three things have to happen at once. First, I joined this space and I joined the Libra project and I joined Circle to deliver three things. The first is that financial innovation, financial inclusion, and financial integrity are not tradeoffs. As much as there might be a conflict between those objectives, I don’t think of them as tradeoffs. I think you can achieve universal global access to universally accessible device-centric payments and money everywhere in the world without degrading the types of consumer protection, financial protection, financial market protection, and financial crime compliance protections that the world cares about. In fact, I am willing to wager that we can make exponential improvements in those three objectives compared to any other technology stack or any other sector. So what then does it take then to get to the billion-user market or the mass adoption market? It does take legislation and legal and regulatory clarity, and remember that has to become an export product. One person’s well-regulated stablecoin is not another country’s banned digital asset or digital security, right? In order to lead, we need to harmonize regulation and export a harmonized regulatory standard. We also need the technology to be abstracted away into the background because we oftentimes talk about crypto being trustless, open, frictionless technology. It is heavily complicated, it is fraught with gas fees and technological complexities that need to be abstracted away into the background. So I wrote an article in Forbes titled ‘We can change the world with blockchain if we stop talking about it”. When was the last time we talked about wireless software and routers? We are still making the technology a protagonist and I think that is one of the major pathways to the billion-user market. So let’s talk about de-dollarisation. Right now, the BRIC countries are pushing for this agenda. I want to really understand how it affects payment stablecoins like the USDC. Does the fate of payment-stable coins hang in the balance? It’s a very good question. So, to summarise this notion of . Every other day there is an article in the news, whether it is the mainstream financial media or elsewhere around a transition among many emerging and developing countries away from dollar dependency partly because of the notion that the dollar represents a soft power instrument of the US government and a way of exerting that soft power around the world. de-dollarisation It is also in the context of a war in Europe: Russia’s war of aggression against Ukraine. The dependency on the dollar and more importantly the rails on which the dollar rides, networks like SWIFT and others in which people, companies, and entities can be ‘de-banked’ or removed from having access to the financial system depending on whether those sanctions are imposed or not. So, de-dollarisation is on the one hand symbolic of the desire among many to have monetary sovereignty and control of their domestic, economic, and monetary environment as much as it is the desire to remove soft power instrument that the United States has and has had since the Brenton Woods era. But it is as I said before, a long-range issue: it’s not something that just happened overnight in no small measure because of the liquidity, the network effect, and the ubiquity of the dollar around the world. Those are hard preconditions to recreate irrespective of any innovation or country or central bank desire to have. What are the regulatory concerns in the United States as far as crypto regulation is concerned? If you look at the recent hearings; Im forever an optimist. Just like it took the recent dot-com bubble to develop a more durable, usable, value-adding internet, and then all of the tech titans that were burned from that bubble, I do think if you look backward to 2022, and the things that worked in crypto and digital assets and the things that did not work. I also remain very heavily optimistic about the space, and just like it took the 2008 banking crisis to get comprehensive banking reforms from the US and to get bodies like the Financial Stability Board and others, I do think these rounds of crypto risks that we have suffered will produce positive outcomes from a regulatory vantage point. We have had hearings for example in the US on stablecoins; I was in one of those hearings. The upcoming hearing, for example, on the role of the dollar, and the strength of de-dollarisation coming up on June 7. And I think that policy conversation will produce ultimately legislation and my hope is that that legislation is not so light-touched that more and more people and consumers are harmed but that it is sufficiently acknowledging a principle base that enables competition, a level-playing field, and the pathway to the billion users that remains very illusive for crypto but very important for the world. On a final note, how can my readers connect with you? What are your hobbies? Well so for one, I guess they could follow my work, my writings, and my other hobbies on my personal website which is www.dantedisparte.com. I have written hundreds of articles, a number of book chapters, and a book on global risk. In fact, the things that keep me awake at night probably have less to do with the future of money and payments and more to do with the state of the world. There is a lot of complexities in the world and unless we encourage innovation and the whole of society's approaches to solving big complex issues like the Covid-19 pandemic and other then we should all be concerned.  Those are some of my personal preoccupations but I promise you I’m a fun guy to be with. Articles Dante referenced in this interview: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dantedisparte/2019/05/20/why-enterprise-blockchain-projects-fail/?sh=ec4655b4b96b https://www.project-syndicate.org/onpoint/us-digital-currency-race-private-crypto-sector-secret-weapon-by-dante-alighieri-disparte-2021-07 https://www.forbes.com/sites/dantedisparte/2018/03/28/when-we-stop-talking-about-blockchain-we-can-change-the-world-with-it/?sh=489847c91037

The US and Crypto Mass Adoption: Insights from Circle's Chief Strategy Officer, Dante Disparte 

Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions by Edwin Abbott Abbott is part of the HackerNoon Books Series. You can jump to any chapter in this book . How, though the Sphere shewed me other mysteries of Spaceland, I still desired more; and what came of it here How, though the Sphere shewed me other mysteries of Spaceland, I still desired more; and what came of it When I saw my poor brother led away to imprisonment, I attempted to leap down into the Council Chamber, desiring to intercede on his behalf, or at least bid him farewell. But I found that I had no motion of my own. I absolutely depended on the volition of my Guide, who said in gloomy tones, "Heed not thy brother; haply thou shalt have ample time hereafter to condole with him. Follow me." Once more we ascended into space. "Hitherto," said the Sphere, "I have shewn you naught save Plane Figures and their interiors. Now I must introduce you to Solids, and reveal to you the plan upon which they are constructed. Behold this multitude of moveable square cards. See, I put one on another, not, as you supposed, Northward of the other, but ON the other. Now a second, now a third. See, I am building up a Solid by a multitude of Squares parallel to one another. Now the Solid is complete, being as high as it is long and broad, and we call it a Cube." "Pardon me, my Lord," replied I; "but to my eye the appearance is as of an Irregular Figure whose inside is laid open to the view; in other words, methinks I see no Solid, but a Plane such as we infer in Flatland; only of an Irregularity which betokens some monstrous criminal, so that the very sight of it is painful to my eyes." "True," said the Sphere, "it appears to you a Plane, because you are not accustomed to light and shade and perspective; just as in Flatland a Hexagon would appear a Straight Line to one who has not the Art of Sight Recognition. But in reality it is a Solid, as you shall learn by the sense of Feeling." He then introduced me to the Cube, and I found that this marvellous Being was indeed no Plane, but a Solid; and that he was endowed with six plane sides and eight terminal points called solid angles; and I remembered the saying of the Sphere that just such a Creature as this would be formed by a Square moving, in Space, parallel to himself: and I rejoiced to think that so insignificant a Creature as I could in some sense be called the Progenitor of so illustrious an offspring. But still I could not fully understand the meaning of what my Teacher had told me concerning "light" and "shade" and "perspective"; and I did not hesitate to put my difficulties before him. Were I to give the Sphere's explanation of these matters, succinct and clear though it was, it would be tedious to an inhabitant of Space, who knows these things already. Suffice it, that by his lucid statements, and by changing the position of objects and lights, and by allowing me to feel the several objects and even his own sacred Person, he at last made all things clear to me, so that I could now readily distinguish between a Circle and a Sphere, a Plane Figure and a Solid. This was the Climax, the Paradise, of my strange eventful History. Henceforth I have to relate the story of my miserable Fall:—most miserable, yet surely most undeserved! For why should the thirst for knowledge be aroused, only to be disappointed and punished? My volition shrinks from the painful task of recalling my humiliation; yet, like a second Prometheus, I will endure this and worse, if by any means I may arouse in the interiors of Plane and Solid Humanity a spirit of rebellion against the Conceit which would limit our Dimensions to Two or Three or any number short of Infinity. Away then with all personal considerations! Let me continue to the end, as I began, without further digressions or anticipations, pursuing the plain path of dispassionate History. The exact facts, the exact words,—and they are burnt in upon my brain,—shall be set down without alteration of an iota; and let my Readers judge between me and Destiny. The Sphere would willingly have continued his lessons by indoctrinating me in the conformation of all regular Solids, Cylinders, Cones, Pyramids, Pentahedrons, Hexahedrons, Dodecahedrons, and Spheres: but I ventured to interrupt him. Not that I was wearied of knowledge. On the contrary, I thirsted for yet deeper and fuller draughts than he was offering to me. "Pardon me," said I, "O Thou Whom I must no longer address as the Perfection of all Beauty; but let me beg thee to vouchsafe thy servant a sight of thine interior." SPHERE. My what? I. Thine interior: thy stomach, thy intestines. SPHERE. Whence this ill-timed impertinent request? And what mean you by saying that I am no longer the Perfection of all Beauty? I. My Lord, your own wisdom has taught me to aspire to One even more great, more beautiful, and more closely approximate to Perfection than yourself. As you yourself, superior to all Flatland forms, combine many Circles in One, so doubtless there is One above you who combines many Spheres in One Supreme Existence, surpassing even the Solids of Spaceland. And even as we, who are now in Space, look down on Flatland and see the insides of all things, so of a certainty there is yet above us some higher, purer region, whither thou dost surely purpose to lead me—O Thou Whom I shall always call, everywhere and in all Dimensions, my Priest, Philosopher, and Friend—some yet more spacious Space, some more dimensionable Dimensionality, from the vantage-ground of which we shall look down together upon the revealed insides of Solid things, and where thine own intestines, and those of thy kindred Spheres, will lie exposed to the view of the poor wandering exile from Flatland, to whom so much has already been vouchsafed. SPHERE. Pooh! Stuff! Enough of this trifling! The time is short, and much remains to be done before you are fit to proclaim the Gospel of Three Dimensions to your blind benighted countrymen in Flatland. I. Nay, gracious Teacher, deny me not what I know it is in thy power to perform. Grant me but one glimpse of thine interior, and I am satisfied for ever, remaining henceforth thy docile pupil, thy unemancipable slave, ready to receive all thy teachings and to feed upon the words that fall from thy lips. SPHERE. Well, then, to content and silence you, let me say at once, I would shew you what you wish if I could; but I cannot. Would you have me turn my stomach inside out to oblige you? I. But my Lord has shewn me the intestines of all my countrymen in the Land of Two Dimensions by taking me with him into the Land of Three. What therefore more easy than now to take his servant on a second journey into the blessed region of the Fourth Dimension, where I shall look down with him once more upon this land of Three Dimensions, and see the inside of every three-dimensioned house, the secrets of the solid earth, the treasures of the mines in Spaceland, and the intestines of every solid living creature, even of the noble and adorable Spheres. SPHERE. But where is this land of Four Dimensions? I. I know not: but doubtless my Teacher knows. SPHERE. Not I. There is no such land. The very idea of it is utterly inconceivable. I. Not inconceivable, my Lord, to me, and therefore still less inconceivable to my Master. Nay, I despair not that, even here, in this region of Three Dimensions, your Lordship's art may make the Fourth Dimension visible to me; just as in the Land of Two Dimensions my Teacher's skill would fain have opened the eyes of his blind servant to the invisible presence of a Third Dimension, though I saw it not. Let me recall the past. Was I not taught below that when I saw a Line and inferred a Plane, I in reality saw a Third unrecognized Dimension, not the same as brightness, called "height"? And does it not now follow that, in this region, when I see a Plane and infer a Solid, I really see a Fourth unrecognized Dimension, not the same as colour, but existent, though infinitesimal and incapable of measurement? And besides this, there is the Argument from Analogy of Figures. SPHERE. Analogy! Nonsense: what analogy? I. Your Lordship tempts his servant to see whether he remembers the revelations imparted to him. Trifle not with me, my Lord; I crave, I thirst, for more knowledge. Doubtless we cannot SEE that other higher Spaceland now, because we we have no eye in our stomachs. But, just as there WAS the realm of Flatland, though that poor puny Lineland Monarch could neither turn to left nor right to discern it, and just as there WAS close at hand, and touching my frame, the land of Three Dimensions, though I, blind senseless wretch, had no power to touch it, no eye in my interior to discern it, so of a surety there is a Fourth Dimension, which my Lord perceives with the inner eye of thought. And that it must exist my Lord himself has taught me. Or can he have forgotten what he himself imparted to his servant? In One Dimension, did not a moving Point produce a Line with TWO terminal points? In Two Dimensions, did not a moving Line produce a Square with FOUR terminal points? In Three Dimensions, did not a moving Square produce—did not this eye of mine behold it—that blessed Being, a Cube, with EIGHT terminal points? And in Four Dimensions shall not a moving Cube—alas, for Analogy, and alas for the Progress of Truth, if it be not so—shall not, I say, the motion of a divine Cube result in a still more divine Organization with SIXTEEN terminal points? Behold the infallible confirmation of the Series, 2, 4, 8, 16: is not this a Geometrical Progression? Is not this—if I might quote my Lord's own words—"strictly according to Analogy"? Again, was I not taught by my Lord that as in a Line there are TWO bounding Points, and in a Square there are FOUR bounding Lines, so in a Cube there must be SIX bounding Squares? Behold once more the confirming Series, 2, 4, 6: is not this an Arithmetical Progression? And consequently does it not of necessity follow that the more divine offspring of the divine Cube in the Land of Four Dimensions, must have 8 bounding Cubes: and is not this also, as my Lord has taught me to believe, "strictly according to Analogy"? O, my Lord, my Lord, behold, I cast myself in faith upon conjecture, not knowing the facts; and I appeal to your Lordship to confirm or deny my logical anticipations. If I am wrong, I yield, and will no longer demand a fourth Dimension; but, if I am right, my Lord will listen to reason. I ask therefore, is it, or is it not, the fact, that ere now your countrymen also have witnessed the descent of Beings of a higher order than their own, entering closed rooms, even as your Lordship entered mine, without the opening of doors or windows, and appearing and vanishing at will? On the reply to this question I am ready to stake everything. Deny it, and I am henceforth silent. Only vouchsafe an answer. SPHERE. (AFTER A PAUSE). It is reported so. But men are divided in opinion as to the facts. And even granting the facts, they explain them in different ways. And in any case, however great may be the number of different explanations, no one has adopted or suggested the theory of a Fourth Dimension. Therefore, pray have done with this trifling, and let us return to business. I. I was certain of it. I was certain that my anticipations would be fulfilled. And now have patience with me and answer me yet one more question, best of Teachers! Those who have thus appeared—no one knows whence—and have returned—no one knows whither—have they also contracted their sections and vanished somehow into that more Spacious Space, whither I now entreat you to conduct me? SPHERE (MOODILY). They have vanished, certainly—if they ever appeared. But most people say that these visions arose from the thought—you will not understand me—from the brain; from the perturbed angularity of the Seer. I. Say they so? Oh, believe them not. Or if it indeed be so, that this other Space is really Thoughtland, then take me to that blessed Region where I in Thought shall see the insides of all solid things. There, before my ravished eye, a Cube, moving in some altogether new direction, but strictly according to Analogy, so as to make every particle of his interior pass through a new kind of Space, with a wake of its own—shall create a still more perfect perfection than himself, with sixteen terminal Extra-solid angles, and Eight solid Cubes for his Perimeter. And once there, shall we stay our upward course? In that blessed region of Four Dimensions, shall we linger on the threshold of the Fifth, and not enter therein? Ah, no! Let us rather resolve that our ambition shall soar with our corporal ascent. Then, yielding to our intellectual onset, the gates of the Sixth Dimension shall fly open; after that a Seventh, and then an Eighth— How long I should have continued I know not. In vain did the Sphere, in his voice of thunder, reiterate his command of silence, and threaten me with the direst penalties if I persisted. Nothing could stem the flood of my ecstatic aspirations. Perhaps I was to blame; but indeed I was intoxicated with the recent draughts of Truth to which he himself had introduced me. However, the end was not long in coming. My words were cut short by a crash outside, and a simultaneous crash inside me, which impelled me through space with a velocity that precluded speech. Down! down! down! I was rapidly descending; and I knew that return to Flatland was my doom. One glimpse, one last and never-to-be-forgotten glimpse I had of that dull level wilderness—which was now to become my Universe again—spread out before my eye. Then a darkness. Then a final, all-consummating thunder-peal; and, when I came to myself, I was once more a common creeping Square, in my Study at home, listening to the Peace-Cry of my approaching Wife. About HackerNoon Book Series: We bring you the most important technical, scientific, and insightful public domain books. This book is part of the public domain. Edwin Abbott Abbott (1995). Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions. Urbana, Illinois: Project Gutenberg. Retrieved https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/201/pg201-images.html This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with almost no restrictions whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included with this eBook or online at , located at . www.gutenberg.org https://www.gutenberg.org/policy/license.html

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